Subject:
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Re: A tiresome tirade (Was: garbage output)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.admin.general
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Date:
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Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:01:40 GMT
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Viewed:
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929 times
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In lugnet.admin.general, ldsmith@pfc.forestry.ca (Linc Smith) writes:
> I have been away for awhile and have only now been able to start reading
> Lugnet again. The recent flames in *.cad were surprising to me. However,
> I agreed (for the most part) with their content.
You agree with what's being said but not with how it's being said?
> I think the surprise came in that it is the first time anyone has been
> seriously flamed since the inception of Lugnet (that I can remember).
> As a rule, the community here has always given the benefit of the doubt
> (almost to excess). Granted the events transpired and posts made have
> tried this benefit to it's maximum. I understand the frustration, but
> I still feel the reprimand has come too early (IMO); the public reprimand
> anyway.
I think this particular problem has a complex history which goes back
several months and involves several people. It didn't materialize quickly
or suddenly.
> Language has been used that can alienate an individual.
Sometimes that is the goal.
> My vision of Lugnet is a
> community that will attempt to correct actions rather that making the
> perpetrator unwelcome.
I agree with that, and that was almost always my approach when I was a
manager. You try to encourage desirable actions and behavior rather than
making things personal. Making things personal only confuses the issues.
> I realize attempts to rectify JW's posting tone and
> part submissions were made, but a clear and concise ultimatum was not
> made. I feel that the blatant disregard for such a clear and concise
> ultimatum is the only grounds for flame or reprimand.
*Could* an ultimatum be [fairly] made? I'm not sure what you're saying.
> I think JW now has a idea of how some of the Cad community feels towards
> his posts and part submissions.
Yes.
> I hope that he has not left our community and
> will instead try to produce the type of product that is expected (he
> would gain _much_ respect from me if he would stay in the face of such
> pointed public flames).
I can see that point of view. Definitely. But IMHO, he really ought to
take a complete break from LDraw parts creation and go practice up on
*basic* skills like 3D coordinate geometry and attention to detail *first*
before continuing on any more LDraw parts. After he masters the basic
skills, he can come back and blow us all away with amazingly accurate parts.
That would gain my total respect!
> I fear that he may have decided to give up on part authoring.
I hope that he does give it up. I seriously, very much hope that he does.
At least for now.
He very much needs to practice on 3D work -- and maybe someday he can be
good -- but his current technique is a tragic waste of time, effort, talent,
energy, etc. given how consistently poorly it is received by the LDraw
community. It hasn't gotten better, it's only gotten more obviously worse.
Putting up bad stuff for public consumption, over and over, and refusing to
go buy or borrow real LEGO, is not a formula for earning respect.
> I am not saying that JW's actions were not frustrating, or rude in some
> respects. I hope that he can _glean_ (from replies to his posts) the
> rules of conduct and part authoring expected, because flames are seldom
> read as a corrective suggestion by the target.
That's the challengingest part!
> I don't think anything really major has transpired here, but it is
> experience that should used the next time user behaviour needs to be
> addressed.
yeah.
--Todd
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: A tiresome tirade (Was: garbage output)
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| Todd Lehman wrote in message ... (...) However, (...) Yes that's it (more to that question later). (...) Agreed. Perhaps I underestimate the amount of patience that he has tried over the months. Though still, as patient as we have been, flames (in (...) (26 years ago, 11-Apr-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A tiresome tirade (Was: garbage output)
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| Sproaticus wrote in message ... (...) typically (...) frustration (...) <snip... very well spoken text> I have been away for awhile and have only now been able to start reading Lugnet again. The recent flames in *.cad were surprising to me. However, (...) (26 years ago, 10-Apr-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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