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		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) As a mental exercise, if you were an omnipotent being and had the ability to improve/redesign/remodel our current universe, how would you do it? (besides making LEGO grow on trees;-) JOHN (21 years ago, 27-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) Ultimately evil will be destroyed. Is this a temporal issue? God allows evil only because God respects our free will. People choose evil. (...) Yes. (...) Again, because God respects free will. (...) No. JOHN (21 years ago, 27-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) God intentionally limits Himself by giving us free will (as far as we know). God desires us to have abundant life-- I don't see where this indicates that God is incomplete or imperfect. Perhaps you could say that God is limited, but it is by (...) (21 years ago, 27-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) I don't think that follows from what I said. Any attempts (even Biblical) to describe the infinite will fall woefully short, and attempts to describe God will inevitabley start sounding like anthropomorphizing. Using the third person musculine (...) (21 years ago, 27-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap!
(...) Marginalized by me? I thought it all great - not quite what I expected from The Angry Young Man. Dave may not like it, but I do. It all fits into a neo-pagan Gaiea world view. I suppose it fits into alot of religions - except for the bit about (...) (21 years ago, 29-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) Where's my favorite appeal to logic: if you don't believe in God you will burn in hell for all eternity! -->Bruce<-- (21 years ago, 29-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) I'm with Kooties in that you are not likely to like my answer either. And I am likely to be further marginalized by "uber-pagan" types like Bruce. Keeping in mind that I reject most organized religions out of hand as obviously politically (...) (21 years ago, 29-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) This suggests a question that may have been asked herepreviously, but I'd like to follow up on it once again: Accepting that you do believe that God exists, {why} do you believe that God exists? I've asked people this in non-LUGNET life, and (...) (21 years ago, 28-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) Are you saying that the "Good Book" is a creation of man, and therefore flawed? Or that men are unable to understand the meaning of a divine text? I think ultimately I am asking you the value of a flawed or unknowable text. If your (...) (21 years ago, 28-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) An excellent summation, Dave! It's pretty much where I stand as well. I'll live my life as virtuously as I know how, but I won't rub blue mud in my belly button and then delude myself that doing so somehow makes me better than those that won't (...) (21 years ago, 28-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) Yeah, I love that story! I believe that it describes the (URL) model of the universe. (URL) Here's> related commentary from the (URL) Skeptic's Dictionary> website: What are we to make of the fact that our personal experience contradicts the (...) (21 years ago, 28-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) The usual pro-Israel crap, John. Get a life. Are you able to think critically at all? (...) Um, no there is not. Again another statement so outrageous that it is false on the face of it. When will the lies end, John? Do you think some purpose (...) (21 years ago, 21-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) Yeah, that's why I used the word "delusion." Delusion -- The act or process of deluding; The state of being deluded; A false belief or opinion; Psychiatry A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom (...) (21 years ago, 28-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) No, he can't. Unless, that is, you accept that it is a good act to take pleasure in killing an innocent human being. And if indeed you do accept that, then you undermine all your previous arguments about the evils of fanatical Islam. (...) But (...) (21 years ago, 28-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) Gee, how did I know that all of this was coming? It's not that God is logically impossible -- it's that YOUR CONCEPTION of God is logically impossible. Can you see the difference? Your conception of God, however much you try to evade your (...) (21 years ago, 28-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) I'm afraid that the doctrine of free will is incompatible with the notion of original sin; it is logically inconsistent to believe in both. (...) God is limited in other ways, too. God, as an omnibenevolent being, can never take first-hand (...) (21 years ago, 27-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) Funny: I want you to express your free will. If you do good, I will love you and reward you in this life and with the attainment of heaven in the afterlife. If you do evil, I will smite you and burn you down in this life and punish you with (...) (21 years ago, 27-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) Yeah, that's straight from the mouth of Elihu in the Book of Job. Elihu says God "was angry at Job because he justified himself rather than God" (Job 32.2): "God is greater than man. Why do you contend against him?" (Job 33.12-13). God even (...) (21 years ago, 27-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) I like that proof just fine, but when I've presented it here before (in prior discussions) it's usually been dismissed off-handedly in terms of "His mysterious purpose" or the like. For variety's sake, I thought that I'd try this perfect = (...) (21 years ago, 27-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

		Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
(...) Did you think the usual proof was to trite? The Problem of Evil A good God would destroy evil. An all powerful God could destroy evil. Evil exists and is not destroyed. ~~~...~~~ Therefore, there cannot possibly be such a good and all powerful (...) (21 years ago, 27-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

crap
(score: 0.288)

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