Subject:
|
Re: Holy crap! (was Re: The partisian trap in California)
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.off-topic.debate
|
Date:
|
Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:25:17 GMT
|
Viewed:
|
947 times
|
| |
|
|
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
| |
| |
| |
| |
Okay, then why, according to the bible, did God create man and, for that
matter, the universe?
|
Fellowship. God wants to be in relationship with us.
|
Then you’re asserting that God is finite and imperfect?
|
I don’t think that follows from what I said.
|
Well, the chain works like this: To “want” something (such as fellowship),
is to imply a lack of that thing (or a desire to prevent the negation/removal
of that thing). A being who lacks something is incomplete, and
incompleteness indicates imperfection.
|
God intentionally limits Himself by giving us free will (as far as we know).
God desires us to have abundant life-- I don’t see where this indicates that God
is incomplete or imperfect. Perhaps you could say that God is limited, but it
is by His choice.
| |
| |
God is beyond logic and reasoning. I know that those are
the only tools our finite brains have, but they are useless when it comes to
matters of the infinite.
|
Let’s first stipulate that you’re witnessing in this passage rather than
debating. That’s not wrong, but it’s different from actually presenting a
case for something.
|
I fully acknowledge this. I’m not sure exactly how else to discuss the topic--
my limitation.
| |
Anyway, it would have been within God’s power, as an
omnipotent being, to endow us with the ability to comprehend the infinite,
yet for some reason He chose not do so so.
|
I don’t follow this. How can the finite grasp the infinite? We certainly have
plenty of examples of the infinite, and we can begin to appreciate the mystery
of the infinite, but how could we ever hope to actually comprehend or
understand it? The logic of omnipotent being creating a finite being able to
comprehend the infinite seems circular to me. If God is omnipotent, can He
create a stone He can’t lift?
| |
Why would he force us to make a
determination based on a relatively infinitessimal sampling? And how could a
moral God punish those who refuse to be forced to use our God-given powers of
reason to address that question?
|
We must acknowledge that reason has limits; knowledge has boundaries. This
question is repeatedly addressed in Genesis and is ancient.
I don’t believe that God punishes those who seek knowledge and make judgments
based on reason. Quite the contrary. But it is an arrogant mistake to replace
God with those tools.
>> We can never find or understand God-- it is only
| |
| |
when God reveals Himself that we are able to catch a glimpse of Him.
|
This sends us back to the problem that you can’t assert with any confidence
that God truly is good; you can only say that you deeply believe that he’s
good based on that small portion of Him that you believe yourself to have
perceived.
|
True. I only know about God what God has revealed Himself to be. Jesus reveals
Him to be a good and loving God. I accept this regardless of how I perceive Him
at any given time (especially in times of grief, etc)
| |
| |
Asserting that God is finite and imperfect is the last thing I’d do...
|
I’m sure that you’d never deliberately do so, but your course of argument has
generated that conclusion!
|
Obviously the fault of my limited arguing abilities!
JOHN
|
|
Message has 1 Reply:
Message is in Reply To:
220 Messages in This Thread:
(Inline display suppressed due to large size. Click Dots below to view.)
- Entire Thread on One Page:
- Nested:
All | Brief | Compact | Dots
Linear:
All | Brief | Compact
This Message and its Replies on One Page:
- Nested:
All | Brief | Compact | Dots
Linear:
All | Brief | Compact
|
|
|
|
