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I had heard it here before around here... but had hoped it was just a
rumour.
LEGO Mindstorms is going away.
Toys R Us, at least in my area, has stopped carrying Mindstorms
products, and according to the fellow I spoke to about it that works
there, LEGO is discontinuing the entire line.
This really bums me out because it was the Mindstorms line that really
triggered my interest in playing with LEGO in the first place, and
although I do indeed love playing with the bricks themselves, I'm still
extremely disappointed about this.
Well, at least I can still fool around with what I've got... I'm mostly
disappointed because this not only means there will be no future
improvements to the RCX, but it also will mean that the development
outside LEGO for Mindstorms products will start to stagnate, spelling a
drawn out demise for products like NQC, BrickOS, PBForth, et al.
Even my wife, who isn't really big on LEGO herself, is kinda bummed out
about this. My kids all think LEGO is making a mistake.... "They always
do this. They stop making the really *COOL* sets and don't come out
with anything better."
Anyways... I'm just expressing some frustration here. Sorry for
dumping, although I wouldn't be suprised if others here shared my sentiment.
>> Mark
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At 10:20 AM 1/7/2004, you wrote:
> Anyways... I'm just expressing some frustration here. Sorry for dumping,
> although I wouldn't be suprised if others here shared my sentiment.
I don't. Does nobody remember the rumour of RIS 3.0? Nothing ever disproved
it (and in fact several sources confirmed it, which were all publicized
here). I'm sticking with that hope.
And besides, just because the line discontinues doesn't mean all the RCX's
disappear off the face of the earth. We still have the core component.
LUGNET has proven over and over again that we can build stuff just as good
as the real McCoy. If LEGO won't do RIS 3.0 (which I'm still confident they
will) then we will.
~Mike
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Mike Thorn wrote:
> And besides, just because the line discontinues doesn't mean all the
> RCX's disappear off the face of the earth. We still have the core
> component.
Right... just because Commodore stopped making the C64 that shouldn't
stop C64 development because of all the people that bought them in the
first place?
Sorry... it doesn't work like that. The RCX and the Mindstorms line
won't die instantly, of course, but the days are definitely numbered, at
least as far as the general public is concerned.
As others have pointed out, the educational market will most likely
continue, but as I'm not a teacher and I do not represent any
educational entity, my options in that venue will be very limited.
>> Mark
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At 11:40 AM 1/7/2004, Mark wrote:
> Mike Thorn wrote:
> > And besides, just because the line discontinues doesn't mean all the
> > RCX's disappear off the face of the earth. We still have the core component.
>
> Right... just because Commodore stopped making the C64 that shouldn't stop
> C64 development because of all the people that bought them in the first place?
If IBM hadn't produced their PC's and the Macs never broke into the market
we'd still be using C64's. The key thing is that the C64's became outdated
and obsolete. The RCX is far from outdated OR obsolete.
~Mike
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In lugnet.robotics, Mark Tarrabain wrote:
> Mike Thorn wrote:
>
>
> > And besides, just because the line discontinues doesn't mean all the
> > RCX's disappear off the face of the earth. We still have the core
> > component.
>
> Right... just because Commodore stopped making the C64 that shouldn't
> stop C64 development because of all the people that bought them in the
> first place?
>
> Sorry... it doesn't work like that. The RCX and the Mindstorms line
> won't die instantly, of course, but the days are definitely numbered, at
> least as far as the general public is concerned.
>
> As others have pointed out, the educational market will most likely
> continue, but as I'm not a teacher and I do not represent any
> educational entity, my options in that venue will be very limited.
>
> > > Mark
Are you under the impression that you must be connected to education to purchase
from Pitsco?
If you are under that impression, it is not true. Anyone with a valid credit
card can purchase from Pitsco. If you don't have one, then you are out in the
cold.
I am not a teacher or connected to education in any way, but I have been
purchasing from Pitsco for over a year. When I have the funds on my credit card.
Steven Weiser
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Steven Weiser wrote:
> Are you under the impression that you must be connected to education to purchase
> from Pitsco?
>
> If you are under that impression, it is not true. Anyone with a valid credit
> card can purchase from Pitsco. If you don't have one, then you are out in the
> cold.
I cannot purchase from Pitsco. That is a certainty. Pitsco does not
sell to areas which have regional educational suppliers, and I am
located in Western Canada, where the supplier for the educational
division of LEGO is Spectrum Education.
The last time I spoke to them about purchasing from them (about 2 years
ago now), they said that they were an educational supplier, not a toy
store. Call it "once bitten twice shy" if you will, but suffice to say
I'm not particularly keen on calling them again to see if they've
changed their tune.
>> Mark
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In lugnet.robotics, Mark Tarrabain wrote:
<snip>
> I cannot purchase from Pitsco. That is a certainty. Pitsco does not
> sell to areas which have regional educational suppliers, and I am
> located in Western Canada, where the supplier for the educational
> division of LEGO is Spectrum Education.
>
> The last time I spoke to them about purchasing from them (about 2 years
> ago now), they said that they were an educational supplier, not a toy
> store. Call it "once bitten twice shy" if you will, but suffice to say
> I'm not particularly keen on calling them again to see if they've
> changed their tune.
>
> > > Mark
I hear your pain, Mark.
That said, I have purchased numerous LEGO items from Spectrum, from the Technic
turntables to additional sensors for my RCX. I mentioned to them that I wasn't
part of any education system--they didn't have a problem with that and they even
sent me colour glossy catalogues.
Of course, Spectrum, as far as I can see, is based in Aurora, which is a
few(ish) kilometers from where I live here in Ontario.
My only problem is that it's expensive to get parts from Spectrum--Bricklink was
a much less expensive way to get parts.
Dave K
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In lugnet.robotics, David Koudys wrote:
.
>
> That said, I have purchased numerous LEGO items from Spectrum, from the Technic
> turntables to additional sensors for my RCX. I mentioned to them that I wasn't
> part of any education system--they didn't have a problem with that and they even
> sent me colour glossy catalogues.
>
> Of course, Spectrum, as far as I can see, is based in Aurora, which is a
> few(ish) kilometers from where I live here in Ontario.
>
> My only problem is that it's expensive to get parts from Spectrum--Bricklink was
> a much less expensive way to get parts.
>
> Dave K
Dave, this summer, Spectrum moved from Aurora to Newmarket Ontario. I used to
buy all kinds of part from them.
In their 'Early Years' catalog, pgs 22-31, they have all sorts of LEGO but no
Mindstorms products and no Robolab software. I sent off a note to their
'customer service' asking if they still carry those things. I will post the
reply.
My hope is that they are no longer licensed to sell those products, so that I
can buy them directly from Pitsco. Spectrum was selective about what they
stocked, but because of licence agreements I could not order 'missing items'
from Pitsco direct. For example: When I complained to Pitsco that Spectrum did
not stock a $25 upgrade (after I had purchased the original Robolab for $100) a
very nice guy from Pitsco actually mailed me the upgrade at no cost.
Jerry
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In lugnet.robotics, Jerry Kalpin wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, David Koudys wrote:
> .
> >
> > That said, I have purchased numerous LEGO items from Spectrum,
> > My only problem is that it's expensive to get parts from Spectrum--Bricklink was
> > a much less expensive way to get parts.
Dave, I also have ordered from Spectrum. Nice folks, as I recall. Just way
over-priced. Oh well, that's what happens when you stick in a middleman.
We have LEGO Direct for direct sales to consumers.....
Why not a 'LEGO Smart' division to handle the educational side of the LEGO
catalog?
> In their 'Early Years' catalog, pgs 22-31, they have all sorts of LEGO but no
> Mindstorms products and no Robolab software. I sent off a note to their
> 'customer service' asking if they still carry those things. I will post the
> reply.
>
> My hope is that they are no longer licensed to sell those products, so that I
> can buy them directly from Pitsco. Spectrum was selective about what they
> stocked, but because of licence agreements I could not order 'missing items'
> from Pitsco direct. For example: When I complained to Pitsco that Spectrum did
> not stock a $25 upgrade (after I had purchased the original Robolab for $100) a
> very nice guy from Pitsco actually mailed me the upgrade at no cost.
I would be just as happy to see all of these products move back under the true
LEGO company umbrella. It's never made sense to me why LEGO is so ashamed that
their products might be seen as "educational".
Allan B.
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> In lugnet.robotics, David Koudys wrote:
> I would be just as happy to see all of these products move back under the true
> LEGO company umbrella. It's never made sense to me why LEGO is so ashamed that
> their products might be seen as "educational".
>
> Allan B.
I think the problem there is that LEGO can't or doesn't want to get involved in
the level of support that it often takes to sell into the educational channel
effectively.
James
http://robotics.megagiant.com
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In lugnet.robotics, Jerry Kalpin wrote:
> Dave, this summer, Spectrum moved from Aurora to Newmarket Ontario. I used to
> buy all kinds of part from them.
>
> In their 'Early Years' catalog, pgs 22-31, they have all sorts of LEGO but no
> Mindstorms products and no Robolab software. I sent off a note to their
> 'customer service' asking if they still carry those things. I will post the
> reply.
>
> My hope is that they are no longer licensed to sell those products, so that I
> can buy them directly from Pitsco. Spectrum was selective about what they
> stocked, but because of licence agreements I could not order 'missing items'
> from Pitsco direct. For example: When I complained to Pitsco that Spectrum did
> not stock a $25 upgrade (after I had purchased the original Robolab for $100) a
> very nice guy from Pitsco actually mailed me the upgrade at no cost.
>
> Jerry
Following up with Spectrum in Ontario, Canada ...yes, they do have a lot of
Mindstorms stuff and they will sell to the public. Here is their reply:
Dear Jerry,
Thank you for your interest in Spectrum Educational Supplies. We do carry Lego
Mindstorms products and you can view our product selection on-line at
www.spectrumed.com and view the Elementary School Catalogue. To place an order,
please call our Customer Service Department at 1-800-668-0600.
Thank you and best regards,
Spectrum Customer Service
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Try www.pldstore.com... I'd be very surprised if you can't place an
order. As far as calling that company again, what is the worst they can
do? Say "No"? Worth a try... Worst comes to worst... form an FLL team,
teach some kids how to program robots and buy through PitscoLEGODacta
(or their rep) totally legitimately any way they look at it. Maybe that
should be best case scenario, start up an FLL team...
Liz
> -----Original Message-----
> From: news-gateway@lugnet.com [mailto:news-gateway@lugnet.com] On • Behalf
> Of Mark Tarrabain
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:17 PM
> To: lego-robotics@crynwr.com
> Subject: Re: The end of an all-too-brief era
>
> Steven Weiser wrote:
>
> > Are you under the impression that you must be connected to education • to
> purchase
> > from Pitsco?
> >
> > If you are under that impression, it is not true. Anyone with a • valid
> credit
> > card can purchase from Pitsco. If you don't have one, then you are • out
> in the
> > cold.
>
> I cannot purchase from Pitsco. That is a certainty. Pitsco does not
> sell to areas which have regional educational suppliers, and I am
> located in Western Canada, where the supplier for the educational
> division of LEGO is Spectrum Education.
>
> The last time I spoke to them about purchasing from them (about 2 • years
> ago now), they said that they were an educational supplier, not a toy
> store. Call it "once bitten twice shy" if you will, but suffice to • say
> I'm not particularly keen on calling them again to see if they've
> changed their tune.
>
> > > Mark
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Mark Tarrabain wrote:
> I cannot purchase from Pitsco. That is a certainty. Pitsco does not
> sell to areas which have regional educational suppliers, and I am
> located in Western Canada, where the supplier for the educational
> division of LEGO is Spectrum Education.
>
> The last time I spoke to them about purchasing from them (about 2 years
> ago now), they said that they were an educational supplier, not a toy
> store. Call it "once bitten twice shy" if you will, but suffice to say
> I'm not particularly keen on calling them again to see if they've
> changed their tune.
I'm certainly not an educator - but they sold to me (here in Texas) with
not so much as a blink. I guess you must be right about not competing
against other LEGO educational suppliers - that may well be in their contract
with LEGO.
Anyway - Pitsco have always been very expensive compared to mainstream
LEGO - I've only ever gone to them for parts that LEGO don't sell directly.
---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjbaker1@airmail.net> WorkEmail: <sjbaker@link.com>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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In lugnet.robotics, Steve Baker <sjbaker1@airmail.net> wrote:
> Mark Tarrabain wrote:
>
> > I cannot purchase from Pitsco. That is a certainty. Pitsco does not
> > sell to areas which have regional educational suppliers, and I am
> > located in Western Canada, where the supplier for the educational
> > division of LEGO is Spectrum Education.
> >
> > The last time I spoke to them about purchasing from them (about 2 years
> > ago now), they said that they were an educational supplier, not a toy
> > store. Call it "once bitten twice shy" if you will, but suffice to say
> > I'm not particularly keen on calling them again to see if they've
> > changed their tune.
>
> I'm certainly not an educator - but they sold to me (here in Texas) with
> not so much as a blink. I guess you must be right about not competing
> against other LEGO educational suppliers - that may well be in their contract
> with LEGO.
>
> Anyway - Pitsco have always been very expensive compared to mainstream
> LEGO - I've only ever gone to them for parts that LEGO don't sell directly.
Well I can't speak for NA, but here in Australia there are 2 suppliers, and up
until about 18 months ago neither would sell to the general public, only to
schools etc. but now they both have websites and you can order online, and both
will sell to anyone. Of course they don't ship internationally.
And yes, they are relatively expensive, but they do have many useful parts that
you can't get anywhere else.
ROSCO
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In lugnet.robotics, Steven D. Weiser wrote:
| |
Are you under the impression that you must be connected to education to
purchase from Pitsco?
If you are under that impression, it is not true. Anyone with a valid credit
card can purchase from Pitsco. If you don’t have one, then you are out in the
cold.
I am not a teacher or connected to education in any way, but I have been
purchasing from Pitsco for over a year. When I have the funds on my credit
card.
Steven Weiser
|
Steve is absolutely correct!
In fact, I got my 2004 Pitsco catalog and THERE IS NO SIGN THAT MINDSTORM IS
GOING BYE-BYE. It is just the opposite; pages 4 thru 21 are loaded with
mindstorms products! On page 26, five of the six books shown have a mindstorms
topic of interest.
Adr.
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In lugnet.robotics, Mike Thorn wrote:
> At 10:20 AM 1/7/2004, you wrote:
> > Anyways... I'm just expressing some frustration here. Sorry for dumping,
> > although I wouldn't be suprised if others here shared my sentiment.
>
> I don't. Does nobody remember the rumour of RIS 3.0? Nothing ever disproved
> it (and in fact several sources confirmed it, which were all publicized
> here). I'm sticking with that hope.
>
> And besides, just because the line discontinues doesn't mean all the RCX's
> disappear off the face of the earth. We still have the core component.
> LUGNET has proven over and over again that we can build stuff just as good
> as the real McCoy. If LEGO won't do RIS 3.0 (which I'm still confident they
> will) then we will.
>
> ~Mike
How well informed is this guy at Toys R Us? If Toys R Us doesn't want to sell
the high dollar Mindstorms 2.0 set, they can simply stop buying it--which means
that Toys R Us is discontinuing the purchase. Depending on the competence of
the Toys R Us sales person, a Toys R Us discontinuing the item may be
misinterpreted as Lego discontinuing the item.
Mindstorms is an expensive product to most consumers--which means the inventory
doesn't turn over well. Since the goal of all sales is to have a high turnover,
sales may decied to dump the low inventory turnover items and increase the high
inventory turnover items. (i.e. lower cost items that they sell a lot of)
This could mean Toys R Us doesn't want to have the Mindstorms sets through the
first part of the year. Since most american business really only focuses on the
next quarter (not 1-5 years long range), the common practice would be to
discontinue ordering (until the ordering for the next quarter is determined).
Mindstorms are not generally purchased on a regular basis for the general public
(a lot of mindstorms sell well at Christmas. A parent can justify 200 bucks for
a nice Christmas present, but usually won't do so for a birthday present).
So, you might want to take that information with the Toys R Us guy with a grain
of salt...or find out where he got that info...
Scott Lyttle
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In lugnet.robotics, Mark Tarrabain wrote:
> I had heard it here before around here... but had hoped it was just a
> rumour.
>
> LEGO Mindstorms is going away.
>
> Toys R Us, at least in my area, has stopped carrying Mindstorms
> products, and according to the fellow I spoke to about it that works
> there, LEGO is discontinuing the entire line.
Has this been confirmed or denied by anyone from TLC ?
At Lego World, the folowing question was asked...
Q: is there any future for the Mindstorms line?
A: yes.
http://news.lugnet.com/events/legoworld/?n=30
Sounds a bit like an urban legend to me. (like a floor person at a TRU would
know whats happening at Billund)
Ray
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In lugnet.robotics, Ray Sanders wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, Mark Tarrabain wrote:
> > I had heard it here before around here... but had hoped it was just a
> > rumour.
> >
> > LEGO Mindstorms is going away.
> >
> > Toys R Us, at least in my area, has stopped carrying Mindstorms
> > products, and according to the fellow I spoke to about it that works
> > there, LEGO is discontinuing the entire line.
>
> Has this been confirmed or denied by anyone from TLC ?
>
> At Lego World, the folowing question was asked...
>
> Q: is there any future for the Mindstorms line?
> A: yes.
> http://news.lugnet.com/events/legoworld/?n=30
It was me to ask that question to Brad Justus. Brad answered that the Mindstorms
line is alive and they have plans for it, and at that moment I felt satisfied.
The day after my brother Giulio met Brad again along the corridors of the
LEGOWORLD and asked him a few more questions. Shortly, Brad confirmed that
Mindstorms has a very strong position as educational tool and that TLC will
release some more expansion sets, but he also said very clearly that there are
no plans for an RCX 3.0.
I want to add to the picture the fact that here in Italy the RIS is almost
impossible to find in the shops. In the last months ItLUG received many messages
of people asking for a place where to buy a RIS.
That said, I'm under the impression that in the future the Mindstorms line is
going to be sold through educational channels only, and that we cannot expect
any further version of the RCX. Obviously, I would like to be proven wrong.
Ciao
Mario
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In lugnet.robotics, Mark Tarrabain wrote:
> I had heard it here before around here... but had hoped it was just a
> rumour.
>
> LEGO Mindstorms is going away.
>
> Toys R Us, at least in my area, has stopped carrying Mindstorms
> products, and according to the fellow I spoke to about it that works
> there, LEGO is discontinuing the entire line.
>
> This really bums me out because it was the Mindstorms line that really
> triggered my interest in playing with LEGO in the first place, and
> although I do indeed love playing with the bricks themselves, I'm still
> extremely disappointed about this.
>
> Well, at least I can still fool around with what I've got... I'm mostly
> disappointed because this not only means there will be no future
> improvements to the RCX, but it also will mean that the development
> outside LEGO for Mindstorms products will start to stagnate, spelling a
> drawn out demise for products like NQC, BrickOS, PBForth, et al.
>
> Even my wife, who isn't really big on LEGO herself, is kinda bummed out
> about this. My kids all think LEGO is making a mistake.... "They always
> do this. They stop making the really *COOL* sets and don't come out
> with anything better."
>
> Anyways... I'm just expressing some frustration here. Sorry for
> dumping, although I wouldn't be suprised if others here shared my sentiment.
>
> > > Mark
Dear Mark,
I do not believe that they will stop production (maybe development) - at least
not regarding the educational part of the system.
But as of today I sent the following eMail to LEGO Customer Service:
"...
Especially because of several comments within the forum LUGNET-Robotics I am
really concerned if LEGO is going to stop production/development of LEGO
Mindstorms. I have invested so much money in this system and my plans are to
invest much more, but in my opinion the unsecure situation (maybe its all
unserious rumors) does not allow the latter.
Would you please, please be so kind to give me at least a hint, whether at least
the production (at least regarding the educational part of it) of the existing
system will continue?
..."
If they should answer, I will post it here, too.
Regards,
Dirk
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In lugnet.robotics, Mark Tarrabain wrote:
> I had heard it here before around here... but had hoped it was just a
> rumour.
>
> LEGO Mindstorms is going away.
>
> Toys R Us, at least in my area, has stopped carrying Mindstorms
> products, and according to the fellow I spoke to about it that works
> there, LEGO is discontinuing the entire line.
>
> This really bums me out because it was the Mindstorms line that really
> triggered my interest in playing with LEGO in the first place, and
> although I do indeed love playing with the bricks themselves, I'm still
> extremely disappointed about this.
>
> Well, at least I can still fool around with what I've got... I'm mostly
> disappointed because this not only means there will be no future
> improvements to the RCX, but it also will mean that the development
> outside LEGO for Mindstorms products will start to stagnate, spelling a
> drawn out demise for products like NQC, BrickOS, PBForth, et al.
>
> Even my wife, who isn't really big on LEGO herself, is kinda bummed out
> about this. My kids all think LEGO is making a mistake.... "They always
> do this. They stop making the really *COOL* sets and don't come out
> with anything better."
>
> Anyways... I'm just expressing some frustration here. Sorry for
> dumping, although I wouldn't be suprised if others here shared my sentiment.
>
> > > Mark
I'm sorry, but the person you talked to at Toys R Us was mistaken - MindStorms
is continuing. This is not the first post I have seen expressing concern on the
subject, and I think it is time to put an end to the myth. There are more
MindStorms products coming out.
How do I know this? Over the past few months I have come accidentily across
information about future MindStorms products from the mouths of LEGO themselves.
I have now counted 3 instances of them saying MindStorms has a future.
For instance, during an interview with Jake Mckee, he got the "MindStorms
question" twice. Finally he said in obvious frustration, "MindStorms is not
dead..." and then I didn't see the question asked again.
It's pretty clear to me that there will be future products - what they are is
not sure. To say that they are discontinuing certain MindStorms products is
true. It is happening but...just think of it this way: they are making room for
future products!
Don't worry, there's most likely something out there!
David J. Perdue
www.geocities.com/imroboguy
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David Perdue wrote:
> I'm sorry, but the person you talked to at Toys R Us was mistaken
You know, it would be nice if people would actually _communicate_ with
people. I'd be royally ticked off if the reason the store stopped
allocating space for mindstorms products was because someone at the
store thought the line was being discontinued and the purchaser got wind
of this and decided not to pick up any more, when it wasn't true in the
first place. I never did get around to picking up the ultimate
builders set, and here I just kept waiting around patiently for the
store to get another shipment in.
>> Mark
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