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I've just started to play with this set.
WOW!!
despite my earlier post about the B I G box but lots of empty space i
like this set..... for the parts.
WOW.
Lego has come VERY VERY close to my "dream" of a RC lego "system"
when I first saw the very first lego RC car 5600 I thought it was going
to be cool.
I had envisioned a system of a base receiver, one that would allow
someone to attach standard lego motors to and be able to form the
steering and driving mechanisms...
I was disappointed to get a very plane pre built RC car that had a few
studs to attach bricks to decorate your rc car.
but forget all that... that was then.
NOW, in the next phase of 27 MHz play lego has given me:
a base receiver that has 2 standard 9v battery connectors. and one
motor output that is sort of like the "microscout" cause it is built
in. the odd thing about this output is that it is locked into just
turing 45 degrees left or right with a "spring" that auto centres the
axle after you stop transmitting to that motor. THE GOOD NEWS is that
if you attach a polarity switch like this:
http://members.rogers.com/magno42/3out.jpg
then the "proportional steering" can be made to be a constant out.
that leaves the 2 "regular" 9V motor out's. what can I say. they do
what you would expect them to do.
the trasmitter/reciever pair can be set to one of 3 channels so up to 3
cars can play at once.
Calum, we HAVE to have a "battle bots" game. maybe not a Rx game but
some sort of LIVEx game.
I'm done typing... I'm going back to play with my new motors.....
Chris
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In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Chris Magno writes:
<snip>
> I'm done typing... I'm going back to play with my new motors.....
>
> Chris
Its a very fun set, and it gets better when you throw the RC and motors 'n
stuff into the supercar!
:)
Dave K
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> Its a very fun set, and it gets better when you throw the RC and motors 'n
> stuff into the supercar!
>
> :)
>
> Dave K
Dave,
I've just messed around with the motors.... they have 2 out's one spins
at 1200 RPM and the other 1700.
when I added my famous worm to 24 and added it to my "kick your butt"
king of the hill r13 game... I was saddened.
these motors seem to be all speed and little torque.
add to that that the spacing makes it darn near impossible to attach a
STUD beam. sure you can add a studless beam no problem....
sorry, have you used these motors in something OTHER than a direct
drive car?
Also once you click in the 3 point tyre holder into the swing arm(?)
will it ever come out??
Chris
This is the first real set I've bought in years!
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In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Chris Magno writes:
> a base receiver that has 2 standard 9v battery connectors. and one
> motor output that is sort of like the "microscout" cause it is built
> in. the odd thing about this output is that it is locked into just
> turing 45 degrees left or right with a "spring" that auto centres the
> axle after you stop transmitting to that motor. THE GOOD NEWS is that
> if you attach a polarity switch like this:
>
> http://members.rogers.com/magno42/3out.jpg
>
> then the "proportional steering" can be made to be a constant out.
>
> that leaves the 2 "regular" 9V motor out's. what can I say. they do
> what you would expect them to do.
There's a problem though. The mappings are weird. The second regular 9V
out is mapped to the bottom controller paddles IIRC. The first regular out
is mapped to the... RH top stick? And the steering output is LH top stick?
That's doesn't really lend to battlebots if you want AB skip steer. This
setup lends more to a car with steerable front wheels. What if you use the
steering output to flip power between A or B side wheels?
> Calum, we HAVE to have a "battle bots" game. maybe not a Rx game but
> some sort of LIVEx game.
Christ, is there an echo in here?
from http://news.lugnet.com/org/ca/rtltoronto/?n=5174
> rtlToronto/live2
> -8475 RC Race Buggy powered Battlebots
> -Could be a "small" ie, non Library event. (ie, at the Media Lab etc)
from http://news.lugnet.com/org/ca/rtltoronto/?n=5913
> 2. RC Racer Live2
> Anyone interested in a soccer or all out combat Live2 using the RC Racers?
> I know there's only three channels, but 2 players is more than enough for a
> game of battlebots like combat.
from http://news.lugnet.com/org/ca/rtltoronto/?n=5280
> As a side note, it's highly likely live2 will use the 8475 RC hardware, as
> it seems much more reliable and responsive. So there's your reason to go
> and spend the money now :)
Alright! Let's do it! We have at least two 8475 owners: Dave and Chris.
Who else? Pick a day, pick a place. Sounds like a pile of pre-rtl13 fun.
Calum
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In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Calum Tsang writes:
> In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Chris Magno writes:
> > if you attach a polarity switch like this:
> >
> > http://members.rogers.com/magno42/3out.jpg
> >
> > then the "proportional steering" can be made to be a constant out.
>
> There's a problem though. The mappings are weird. The second regular 9V
> out is mapped to the bottom controller paddles IIRC. The first regular out
> is mapped to the... RH top stick? And the steering output is LH top stick?
>
> That's doesn't really lend to battlebots if you want AB skip steer. This
> setup lends more to a car with steerable front wheels. What if you use the
> steering output to flip power between A or B side wheels?
hmm. I'll have to think about this, but I'll bet, with a little work and a
couple polarity switches, you could make an AB skid steer. I think it would
take some fancy wiring (like the 18v thing) and some precice gearing, but
think about this: You could connect the drive motor output to a polarity
switch, and connect the polarity switch to the steering (like Chris did) and
the output would go to the motor on one side. Then, when the drive stick is
pushed forward, the motor goes forward. Move the 'turn' the stick, and the
motor stops or goes backward. (same thing for the other side)
That's just the concept. It CAN work, but it won't be easy.
> > Calum, we HAVE to have a "battle bots" game. maybe not a Rx game but
> > some sort of LIVEx game.
>
> Christ, is there an echo in here?
>
> from http://news.lugnet.com/org/ca/rtltoronto/?n=5174
Here's something interesting. Oh, wait, you don't like to do the same thing
as anyone else...
http://news.lugnet.com/events/brickswest/?n=419
> > As a side note, it's highly likely live2 will use the 8475 RC hardware, as
> > it seems much more reliable and responsive. So there's your reason to go
> > and spend the money now :)
>
> Alright! Let's do it! We have at least two 8475 owners: Dave and Chris.
> Who else? Pick a day, pick a place. Sounds like a pile of pre-rtl13 fun.
damn. I wish I was closer.
Steve
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> > Alright! Let's do it! We have at least two 8475 owners: Dave and Chris.
> > Who else? Pick a day, pick a place. Sounds like a pile of pre-rtl13 fun.
>
> damn. I wish I was closer.
>
> Steve
10 hour drive just too much.... You could always come live in Canada.
Swear an oath to the Queen, and never worry about medical insurance
again. Plus Lego is Cheaper here.
rtlToronto, doing our little part to reverse the "brain drain"
http://www.canadasbraindrain.ca/home1.html
Chris
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Chris Magno wrote:
> I've just started to play with this set.
>
> WOW!!
I agree.
>
> THE GOOD NEWS is that
> if you attach a polarity switch like this:
>
> http://members.rogers.com/magno42/3out.jpg
>
> then the "proportional steering" can be made to be a constant out.
Why didnt _I_ think of that...
> that leaves the 2 "regular" 9V motor out's. what can I say. they do
> what you would expect them to do.
Except that the one for the drive wheels is also proportional - ie, if
you push the stick in the controller a little bit, they go slow, and you
you push it a lot, they go fast. I think there are three different
speeds possible. (stuff like this would be a major selling point on all
the radio shack rc cars. I'm surprised it wasnt even mentioned on the box)
>
> Calum, we HAVE to have a "battle bots" game. maybe not a Rx game but
> some sort of LIVEx game.
I would come. (you saw how much fun I had with your bot at the last
robotices competetion, right?)
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> Except that the one for the drive wheels is also proportional - ie, if
> you push the stick in the controller a little bit, they go slow, and you
> you push it a lot, they go fast. I think there are three different
> speeds possible.
As soon as i read this I had to try it.... I'm so excited... (sec.)
.
..
....
.....
........
Your wrong.
:(
I added a motor, clicked it into my RPM-o-Meter and just nudged the
stick a tinsy-tiny little bit....
NOTHING!
then I smooched it just a c-hair more.............
FULL ON, 360 RPM (for a standard lego geared motor)
I pushed it all the way up....
360 RPM.
sorry Trevyn. maybe you have the "special" lego RC racer. cause i sure
don't.
> >
> > THE GOOD NEWS is that
> > if you attach a polarity switch like this:
> >
> > http://members.rogers.com/magno42/3out.jpg
> >
> > then the "proportional steering" can be made to be a constant out.
>
> Why didnt _I_ think of that...
cause I'm smarter than the rest of you.....
;)
(notice the wink)
(i also tried the proportional speed idea with the Aux output and the
same result.)
Calum, you asked this:
> There's a problem though. The mappings are weird. The second regular 9V
> out is mapped to the bottom controller paddles IIRC. The first regular out
> is mapped to the... RH top stick? And the steering output is LH top stick?
>
> That's doesn't really lend to battlebots if you want AB skip steer. This
> setup lends more to a car with steerable front wheels. What if you use the
> steering output to flip power between A or B side wheels?
my suggestion is to either make a front steer robot, OR use an adder
subtracter.... you could even do a battery box always ON for the
forward motion, and use the RH steer to add/subtrack to make the skid
steer system turn. who need reverse. that would free up 2 outs to
make a hammer and cross bow.
Chris
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In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Chris Magno writes:
> steer system turn. who need reverse. that would free up 2 outs to
When you get stuck in the corner, sheesh.
Calum
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> In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Chris Magno writes:
> > steer system turn. who need reverse. that would free up 2 outs to
>
> When you get stuck in the corner, sheesh.
>
>
IF you get stuck in a corner, then your opponent comes up behind ya and
WACKS ya.
--
Chris
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Chris Magno wrote:
>
> > In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Chris Magno writes:
> > > steer system turn. who need reverse. that would free up 2 outs to
> >
> > When you get stuck in the corner, sheesh.
> >
> >
>
> IF you get stuck in a corner, then your opponent comes up behind ya and
> WACKS ya.
>
> --
> Chris
This reminds me of a go-cart race I was involved in once. 9 or 10 of us
rented the place, and it turns out one person was a maniac - always
smashing into people. Hyperaggressive when passing. Annoyed a lot of
us. So inevitably, he'd end up plowed into the tires head first. But
these go carts had no reverse - to back up you had to lean forward -
like touching your toes - and pull back on the tops of the front tires,
which would slowly worm you backwards. So you *could* extricate, it
just took 10 or 20 seconds.
Of course, when we realized this, it didn't take long to figure out that
as you went by stranded Mr. Collision, you'd fishtail a little and
*thwack* him back into the tires. >:)
Maybe I should get one o' these sets. Where are they reasonably
priced? Angelo, you trying to get rid of any? We can all bring our
supercar tires and lay out a race course :)
Jeff E
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In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Jeff Elliott writes:
> Maybe I should get one o' these sets. Where are they reasonably
> priced? Angelo, you trying to get rid of any? We can all bring our
> supercar tires and lay out a race course :)
Who said anything about racing? :) I think Chris has this Battlebots esque
tanks with big hammers thing in mind...
Calum
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All the more reason to want to be fast & agile.
Jeff E
Calum Tsang wrote:
>
> In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Jeff Elliott writes:
> > Maybe I should get one o' these sets. Where are they reasonably
> > priced? Angelo, you trying to get rid of any? We can all bring our
> > supercar tires and lay out a race course :)
>
> Who said anything about racing? :) I think Chris has this Battlebots esque
> tanks with big hammers thing in mind...
>
> Calum
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Chris Magno wrote:
>
> Your wrong.
Am not!!
>
> I added a motor, clicked it into my RPM-o-Meter and just nudged the
> stick a tinsy-tiny little bit....
>
> NOTHING!
>
> then I smooched it just a c-hair more.............
>
> FULL ON, 360 RPM (for a standard lego geared motor)
>
> I pushed it all the way up....
>
> 360 RPM.
Were you using a geared 9v motor non loaded? If so, then it's not
surprising that you noticed no difference.
Try it with a load. I tried it with a weight at the end of an arm, and
at one point on the controller it just buzzed, and at the next it
rotated very slowly, and at the next it rotated faster.
Here is a pic of what I used:
http://members.rogers.com/4tee2/DCP_1063.jpg
Thats a lego weight at the end of that arm.
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> Were you using a geared 9v motor non loaded? If so, then it's not
> surprising that you noticed no difference.
Yes I was testing on an unloaded 9V geared motor. Thats how my
RPM-o-Meter works best.
> Try it with a load. I tried it with a weight at the end of an arm, and
> at one point on the controller it just buzzed, and at the next it
> rotated very slowly, and at the next it rotated faster.
>
> Here is a pic of what I used:
> http://members.rogers.com/4tee2/DCP_1063.jpg
>
> Thats a lego weight at the end of that arm.
I just re-did this test and you are correct. when you load a geared
motor (i put a 40t gear on the motor and put friction on the teeth)
then you can perceive 3 states of "something"
Darn it... why did I have to go and loan my multimeter to me dad. I
want to put a DM meter on this and see what volts I get.
Trevyn... do this and let me know. I'm curious if its PWM or just a
lower voltage.
Chris
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It is indeed PWM. I got out my oscilliscope and checked it, and here are
the results I got:
At setting 1 (closest to off):
Th: 1ms
Tl: 2ms
Tt: 3ms
9Vpp
At setting 2:
Th: 2ms
Tl: 1ms
Tt: 3ms
9Vpp
And at full on, it's just 9v DC.
Chris Magno wrote:
>
> Trevyn... do this and let me know. I'm curious if its PWM or just a
> lower voltage.
>
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> It is indeed PWM. I got out my oscilliscope and checked it, and here are
> the results I got:
>
> At setting 1 (closest to off):
> Th: 1ms
> Tl: 2ms
> Tt: 3ms
> 9Vpp
>
> At setting 2:
> Th: 2ms
> Tl: 1ms
> Tt: 3ms
> 9Vpp
>
> And at full on, it's just 9v DC.
cool. Thanks Trevyn.
now if only I had an O-scope and knew what Th, T1, and Tt meant??
;)
Chris
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On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:32:24 GMT, Chris Magno <cmagno@rogers.com>
wrote:
> > It is indeed PWM. I got out my oscilliscope and checked it, and here are
> > the results I got:
> >
> > At setting 1 (closest to off):
> > Th: 1ms
> > Tl: 2ms
> > Tt: 3ms
> > 9Vpp
> >
> > At setting 2:
> > Th: 2ms
> > Tl: 1ms
> > Tt: 3ms
> > 9Vpp
> >
> > And at full on, it's just 9v DC.
>
>
> cool. Thanks Trevyn.
>
> now if only I had an O-scope and knew what Th, T1, and Tt meant??
Th - Time signal is High
Tl - Time signal is Low
Tt - total time
------________
Th Tl
<---- Tt -------->
Matthias Jetleb
P.S.: Th/Tt is defined as the duty cycle, expressed as a percent.
Therefor: Th=2ms, Tt=3ms = 66% duty cycle. This is generally more
meaningful since the average power delivered is the same as it would
be if Th=4ms and Tt=6ms. If Tt gets to be too high (ie. low frequency)
then the motor starts to hum loudly. If Tt gets to be too low, then
the inductive reactance of the motor windings increases, lowering the
overall efficiency.
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Still no baby.....
> Th - Time signal is High
> Tl - Time signal is Low
> Tt - total time
>
> ------________
> Th Tl
> <---- Tt -------->
umm, thanks Matt.... but I did put in the winky face after my last
statement.... and since you did bring it up my DMM does do true RMS.
that's why I have never felt the need for an o-scope. my electronics
projects just don't get more complex than that.
In other news.
I don't think I'm going to burden you with more space hogging stuff.
(the 17" monitor) but thank you for the offer. I might quest around
T.O. and see if I can pick up a decent used monitor for under $100.
Today I built a 2' x 2' x 6" box. got all the parts at home Depot.
if your willing to wait in the 5 free cut line you can get most of the
project done.
I picked up one 2' x 4' G1S (good 1 side) fir 1/2" ply
and two 1" x 6" 4' long knotty pine
a few cuts and you should have all you need for the box.
In my trial test I have discovered that wood is easier to climb than
lego box's. the test platform I made would slowly saunter up a lego
box, BUT the same platform tackled the wood box as if it were level
ground.
Chris
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> Darn it... why did I have to go and loan my multimeter to me dad. I
> want to put a DM meter on this and see what volts I get.
It doesn't matter. DMM's are not good at measuring pulsed signals.
(unless you have one of the more expensive true-RMS meters which can
calculate the average of a non-sinusoidal waveform. You really need an
oscilloscope for this.
> Trevyn... do this and let me know. I'm curious if its PWM or just a
> lower voltage.
It will be PWM. It's actually easier to implement. Trying to create a
voltage drop, particularly if driving motors or other high-current
devices, produces a lot of wasted heat. PWM is far more energy
efficient. Obviously something that's particularly important in a
battery operated device.
Matthias Jetleb
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