 | | | | | | |
| |
|
Greetings,
I had become quickly frustrated by the limitations of the Mindstorms
programming environment. Fueled by the RCX bytecode knowlege provided
by Kekoa, I have recently written an RCX program interpreter/compiler in
Tcl, a freely available cross-platform scripting language.
This software will allow you to program the RCX using most of the
bytecode instructions provided by the stock RCX firmware. You can give
commands to the RCX interactively from a shell prompt or compile
programs and download them to the RCX. The code and documentation are
available for download at http://www.autobahn.org/~peterp/rcx/
You will need to have the Tcl interpreter installed in order to use the
program. It runs on many, many different platforms, although I have not
been able to get the required serial communications to work on the
Macintosh yet (any help in this direction would be appreciated).
Enjoy...
--
// Peter Pletcher peterp@autobahn.org
//
// A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
//
// - Roald Dahl (from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
Hey, looks like you did a great job extending my initial
implementation, but changing a couple of variables and proc
naming does not allow you to appropriate everything
without even giving due credit !!!
Please re-read the License terms on my implementation:
you were not allowed to remove my name or even
change the (c).
I don't want to be bitching and moaning or sound like a
jerk about another great piece of free software, but *please*
be nice and honest and fix your pages and files
at least to add due CREDIT to my implementation
(with name URL and email,etc...). And we'll have to work
out the exact (c) terms anyway...
(in case you would have 'forgotten' where you found the
initial implementation it is on
http://www.demailly.com/tcl/rcx/
)
{the fact that I had my first baby recently and I had
no time to work on TclRCX in those last weeks does not
mean I won't in the future or you can appropriate my
work without even contacting me or crediting me...}
Very surprised, quite dispointed,
Laurent Demailly
Original author of Tcl RCX.
> Greetings,
>
> I had become quickly frustrated by the limitations of the Mindstorms
> programming environment. Fueled by the RCX bytecode knowlege provided
> by Kekoa, I have recently written an RCX program interpreter/compiler in
> Tcl, a freely available cross-platform scripting language.
>
> This software will allow you to program the RCX using most of the
> bytecode instructions provided by the stock RCX firmware. You can give
> commands to the RCX interactively from a shell prompt or compile
> programs and download them to the RCX. The code and documentation are
> available for download at http://www.autobahn.org/~peterp/rcx/
>
> You will need to have the Tcl interpreter installed in order to use the
> program. It runs on many, many different platforms, although I have not
> been able to get the required serial communications to work on the
> Macintosh yet (any help in this direction would be appreciated).
>
> Enjoy...
> --
> // Peter Pletcher peterp@autobahn.org
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:13:57 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Bill Hollingsworth <billh@arches.%saynotospam%uga.edu>
|
Viewed:
|
1783 times
|
| |
|
Hi,
Does anyone use legOS? I read that there are possible risks to
getting other ROM images. What are the risks?
I am using a GNU/Linux machine. Is there anything else involved in
using legOS other than getting GNU binutils, building a gcc cross compiler
for h8300-hitachi-hms, compiling legOS, and downloading it to the RCX?
legOS is available at http://mauve.inrialpes.fr/ .
Thanks,
, __ _ _ ,
/|/ \o | | | | /| |
| __/ | | | | |___|
| \| |/ |/ | |\
|(__/|_/|__/|__/ | |/
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:23:20 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Kekoa Proudfoot <kekoa@Graphics.Stanford.EDU>
|
Viewed:
|
1913 times
|
| |
|
> Does anyone use legOS? I read that there are possible risks to
> getting other ROM images. What are the risks?
Did you get a ROM image? Did you disassemble the firmware? Even if you
did, is there anything to forbid you from using that information to write
new firmware? Not that I'm supplying you with an answer, but it seems to
me that it's your RCX, why can't you do what you like with the hardware now
that you've bought it, especially if you use a piece of software that was
(supposedly) written without using any code from the original firmware or
ROM, except possibly for the "Do you byte, when I knock?" string, which is
otherwise needed for compatibility?
> I am using a GNU/Linux machine. Is there anything else involved in
> using legOS other than getting GNU binutils, building a gcc cross compiler
> for h8300-hitachi-hms, compiling legOS, and downloading it to the RCX?
No. Except that you will almost certainly want to check out:
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/
for more information on the ROM image and firmware.
-Kekoa
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:40:23 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Bill Hollingsworth <billh@arches.uga./StopSpammers/edu>
|
Viewed:
|
1824 times
|
| |
|
Hi,
Thanks for your response. I have been reading your pages over the
past few days. I do not have the RCX (yet), but I am very interested. I
learned of it this weekend and have been reading the specs. I am as
interested in playing with operating systems for it as I am playing with
the robotics. :) Using gcc to program it seems very neat to me, as does
using the PalmPilot III.
Thanks,
, __ _ _ ,
/|/ \o | | | | /| |
| __/ | | | | |___|
| \| |/ |/ | |\
|(__/|_/|__/|__/ | |/
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
RE: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 03:45:32 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Vadim Strizhevsky <vadim@#NoMoreSpam#optonline.net>
|
Viewed:
|
1866 times
|
| |
|
> Hi,
> Thanks for your response. I have been reading your pages over the
> past few days. I do not have the RCX (yet), but I am very interested. I
> learned of it this weekend and have been reading the specs. I am as
> interested in playing with operating systems for it as I am playing with
> the robotics. :) Using gcc to program it seems very neat to me, as does
> using the PalmPilot III.
For some Pilot <--> RCX information take a look at
http://members.rotfl.com/vadim/rcx if you haven't yet.
This honestly is quite lagging on progress, but I _have_ been working on it
in my very limited spare time. Hopefully within a week or two I'll have some
much more substantial/interesting to release.
-Vadim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:24:14 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
John Donaldson <jdonaldson@ghgSPAMLESS.net>
|
Viewed:
|
1900 times
|
| |
|
Has anyone be able to unpack the LegOS file. I have the CYGNUS GCC on
my Wintel system. Using GZIP I get this error
"Invaled Compressed Data - Format Violation"
I would like to try out LegOS and see if it will allow memory
storage/retrieval. I have a project in mind called a "MapBot".
John A. Donaldson
Vadim Strizhevsky wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > Thanks for your response. I have been reading your pages over the
> > past few days. I do not have the RCX (yet), but I am very interested. I
> > learned of it this weekend and have been reading the specs. I am as
> > interested in playing with operating systems for it as I am playing with
> > the robotics. :) Using gcc to program it seems very neat to me, as does
> > using the PalmPilot III.
>
> For some Pilot <--> RCX information take a look at
> http://members.rotfl.com/vadim/rcx if you haven't yet.
>
> This honestly is quite lagging on progress, but I _have_ been working on it
> in my very limited spare time. Hopefully within a week or two I'll have some
> much more substantial/interesting to release.
>
> -Vadim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:59:38 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Bill Hollingsworth <billh@arches.uga+spamcake+.edu>
|
Viewed:
|
1942 times
|
| |
|
On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, John Donaldson wrote:
> Has anyone be able to unpack the LegOS file. I have the CYGNUS GCC on
> my Wintel system. Using GZIP I get this error
>
> "Invaled Compressed Data - Format Violation"
Hi,
You can get legOS at http://mauve.inrialpes.fr/ . There is a note
that some people have a problem with the file after downloading. Instead
of clicking on the file, right click and select save link. It will save
as legOS-0.1.2.tgz . Then run tar -xzf legOS-0.1.2.tgz .
, __ _ _ ,
/|/ \o | | | | /| |
| __/ | | | | |___|
| \| |/ |/ | |\
|(__/|_/|__/|__/ | |/
It's a troublesome world. All the people who're in it
are troubled with troubles almost every minute.
You ought to be thankful, a whole heaping lot,
for the places and people you're lucky you're not!
- Dr. Seuss
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:42:35 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
John Donaldson <jdonaldson@ghg.net+IHateSpam+>
|
Viewed:
|
1993 times
|
| |
|
I have downloaded OK and since it is both tared and zip, you hve to
first unzip it using "GZIP". GZIP is like Compress.
Gzip (compress) -d legOS-0_1_2.tgz - uncompress the file
tar -xzf legOS-0_1_2.t unarchive it.
I am getting the error when I try to uncompress it.
John A. Donaldson
Bill Hollingsworth wrote:
>
> On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, John Donaldson wrote:
>
> > Has anyone be able to unpack the LegOS file. I have the CYGNUS GCC on
> > my Wintel system. Using GZIP I get this error
> >
> > "Invaled Compressed Data - Format Violation"
>
>
> Hi,
> You can get legOS at http://mauve.inrialpes.fr/ . There is a note
> that some people have a problem with the file after downloading. Instead
> of clicking on the file, right click and select save link. It will save
> as legOS-0.1.2.tgz . Then run tar -xzf legOS-0.1.2.tgz .
>
> , __ _ _ ,
> /|/ \o | | | | /| |
> | __/ | | | | |___|
> | \| |/ |/ | |\
> |(__/|_/|__/|__/ | |/
>
> It's a troublesome world. All the people who're in it
> are troubled with troubles almost every minute.
> You ought to be thankful, a whole heaping lot,
> for the places and people you're lucky you're not!
> - Dr. Seuss
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:16:42 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Bill Hollingsworth <BILLH@ARCHES.UGA.spamcakeEDU>
|
Viewed:
|
2007 times
|
| |
|
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, John Donaldson wrote:
> I have downloaded OK and since it is both tared and zip, you hve to
> first unzip it using "GZIP". GZIP is like Compress.
>
> Gzip (compress) -d legOS-0_1_2.tgz - uncompress the file
> tar -xzf legOS-0_1_2.t unarchive it.
Hi,
When you run tar with the -xzf parameters, it first ungzips it then
it untars it, all in the one command. The "z" is for gzip. The "x" is
for extract the tar file. The "f" specifies the file.
, __ _ _ ,
/|/ \o | | | | /| |
| __/ | | | | |___|
| \| |/ |/ | |\
|(__/|_/|__/|__/ | |/
It's a troublesome world. All the people who're in it
are troubled with troubles almost every minute.
You ought to be thankful, a whole heaping lot,
for the places and people you're lucky you're not!
- Dr. Seuss
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:40:22 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Dave Taira <bodhi@foad[AvoidSpam].org>
|
Viewed:
|
1856 times
|
| |
|
On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Kekoa Proudfoot wrote:
> > Does anyone use legOS? I read that there are possible risks to
> > getting other ROM images. What are the risks?
>
> Not that I'm supplying you with an answer, but it seems to
> me that it's your RCX, why can't you do what you like with the
> hardware now that you've bought it,
I think he meants risks as in "I installed LegOS, and it got wedged, and
I can't reinstall the official Lego stuff, so now I've got a very very
expensive lego brick that does nothing".
It seems to me that Lego's position would logically be "If you install
anything that we don't sell, you're on your own".
As a side note: what happened to the Reply-To header? IMHO, replies should
go back to the list by default.
Dave Taira | Broken pipes, broken tools, people bending broken rules / |
Hired Gun | Hound dog howlin', bullfrog croakin' / Everything is broken |
bodhi@foad.org | --Bob Dylan, "Everything is Broken" |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:40:36 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Kekoa Proudfoot <kekoa@Graphics.Stanford.EDU>
|
Viewed:
|
1891 times
|
| |
|
> I think he meants risks as in "I installed LegOS, and it got wedged, and
> I can't reinstall the official Lego stuff, so now I've got a very very
> expensive lego brick that does nothing".
Such risks are unknown. You have to trust, in the case of LegOS, that
Markus did a reasonable job. He in turn probably has some amount of trust
that I did a reasonable job, at least with regards to some aspects. If
you're not sure about whether or not these risks are significant, and if
you're worried about having to replace a broken Lego brick, then by all
means listen to the disclaimers, don't make use of the information on my
web page, and don't use LegOS.
Of course, if you're looking for reasons to be confident with LegOS,
conisder that Markus and others have been using the software with no
destructive effect. As more and more people use the software, you can be
more and more sure that the software is okay.
> It seems to me that Lego's position would logically be "If you install
> anything that we don't sell, you're on your own".
Definitely.
-Kekoa
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:05:09 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
John Scott Kjellman <JKJELLMAN@stopspammersAMERITECH.NET>
|
Viewed:
|
2044 times
|
| |
|
Guys,
Everyone seems to be missing one point:
The RCX does have ROM code (this is what loads the firmware the first
time, right?). If you were to "jam up" the firmware, you could just
simply remove the batteries, let the firmware (which must be in battery
backed SRAM) fade away, and reload the Mind(less)Storm crap :-).
the only possibility of any [physical damage to the brick would be if
Lego did a poor hardware design job and you could program something into
an overload state (like on the old IBM fixed frequency VGA monitors
;-). I highly doubt that this is possible based on the high quality
engineering and QA job that Lego does on every one of their products I
have seen over the last 30 years (geez, do I sound as old as I think?
;-).
Take care (and hack those bricks ;-)
KJohn
Kekoa Proudfoot wrote:
>
> > I think he meants risks as in "I installed LegOS, and it got wedged, and
> > I can't reinstall the official Lego stuff, so now I've got a very very
> > expensive lego brick that does nothing".
>
> Such risks are unknown. You have to trust, in the case of LegOS, that
> Markus did a reasonable job. He in turn probably has some amount of trust
> that I did a reasonable job, at least with regards to some aspects. If
> you're not sure about whether or not these risks are significant, and if
> you're worried about having to replace a broken Lego brick, then by all
> means listen to the disclaimers, don't make use of the information on my
> web page, and don't use LegOS.
>
> Of course, if you're looking for reasons to be confident with LegOS,
> conisder that Markus and others have been using the software with no
> destructive effect. As more and more people use the software, you can be
> more and more sure that the software is okay.
>
> > It seems to me that Lego's position would logically be "If you install
> > anything that we don't sell, you're on your own".
>
> Definitely.
>
> -Kekoa
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:53:24 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Kekoa Proudfoot <kekoa@Graphics.Stanford.EDU>
|
Viewed:
|
1963 times
|
| |
|
> the only possibility of any [physical damage to the brick would be if
> Lego did a poor hardware design job and you could program something into
> an overload state (like on the old IBM fixed frequency VGA monitors
> ;-).
Er? Since when you rewrite the firmware, you can take full control of the
i/o pins of the H8, it seems perfectly possible to me to drive inputs as
outputs and fry something you didn't mean to fry...
You have to be careful to make sure you don't do this to the wrong pairs of
ports, if such pairs exist.
-Kekoa
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Thu, 26 Nov 1998 01:11:36 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
CyberUser <cyberuser@STOPSPAMmksftwre.demon.co.uk>
|
Viewed:
|
1909 times
|
| |
|
I managed to get my Cybermaster into a "vibrating" state with the motors
humming and the unit shaking! (downloaded some commands while it was
running) None of the buttons worked and it did not sound very healthy so
I ripped the batteries out immediately. No harm seems to have been done
though.
Anybody got any ideas what happened?
In message <365C7105.905D3244@ameritech.net>, John Scott Kjellman
<jkjellman@ameritech.net> writes
> Guys,
>
> Everyone seems to be missing one point:
>
> The RCX does have ROM code (this is what loads the firmware the first
> time, right?). If you were to "jam up" the firmware, you could just
> simply remove the batteries, let the firmware (which must be in battery
> backed SRAM) fade away, and reload the Mind(less)Storm crap :-).
>
> the only possibility of any [physical damage to the brick would be if
> Lego did a poor hardware design job and you could program something into
> an overload state (like on the old IBM fixed frequency VGA monitors
> ;-). I highly doubt that this is possible based on the high quality
> engineering and QA job that Lego does on every one of their products I
> have seen over the last 30 years (geez, do I sound as old as I think?
> ;-).
>
> Take care (and hack those bricks ;-)
> KJohn
>
> Kekoa Proudfoot wrote:
> >
> > > I think he meants risks as in "I installed LegOS, and it got wedged, and
> > > I can't reinstall the official Lego stuff, so now I've got a very very
> > > expensive lego brick that does nothing".
> >
> > Such risks are unknown. You have to trust, in the case of LegOS, that
> > Markus did a reasonable job. He in turn probably has some amount of trust
> > that I did a reasonable job, at least with regards to some aspects. If
> > you're not sure about whether or not these risks are significant, and if
> > you're worried about having to replace a broken Lego brick, then by all
> > means listen to the disclaimers, don't make use of the information on my
> > web page, and don't use LegOS.
> >
> > Of course, if you're looking for reasons to be confident with LegOS,
> > conisder that Markus and others have been using the software with no
> > destructive effect. As more and more people use the software, you can be
> > more and more sure that the software is okay.
> >
> > > It seems to me that Lego's position would logically be "If you install
> > > anything that we don't sell, you're on your own".
> >
> > Definitely.
> >
> > -Kekoa
--
CyberUser
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
Re: legOS
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:55:39 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Ben Laurie <BEN@avoidspamALGROUP.CO.UK>
|
Viewed:
|
1837 times
|
| |
|
Bill Hollingsworth wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Does anyone use legOS? I read that there are possible risks to
> getting other ROM images. What are the risks?
The only snags with legOS at the moment (that I'm aware of) are:
a) You have to pull a battery out to clear the RAM
b) It seems to have a problem with corrupting itself somewhere that I
can't work out, and so far nor has Markus. It only shows in some
programs (typically only mine, in fact), which is doubly irritating!
If we can work out b) its gonna be great, though.
> I am using a GNU/Linux machine. Is there anything else involved in
> using legOS other than getting GNU binutils, building a gcc cross compiler
> for h8300-hitachi-hms, compiling legOS, and downloading it to the RCX?
> legOS is available at http://mauve.inrialpes.fr/ .
Don't forget to get the gcc cross compiler patches, without which you
will be very frustrated!
Cheers,
Ben.
--
Ben Laurie |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant |Fax: +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd, |Apache-SSL author http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England. |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Subject:
|
legOS corruption
|
Newsgroups:
|
lugnet.robotics
|
Date:
|
Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:06:15 GMT
|
Original-From:
|
Bill Hollingsworth <billh@arches.uga(NoMoreSpam).edu>
|
Viewed:
|
1884 times
|
| |
|
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Ben Laurie wrote:
> The only snags with legOS at the moment (that I'm aware of) are:
>
> a) You have to pull a battery out to clear the RAM
>
> b) It seems to have a problem with corrupting itself somewhere that I
> can't work out, and so far nor has Markus. It only shows in some
> programs (typically only mine, in fact), which is doubly irritating!
Hi,
In what way does it corrupt itself?
Thanks,
, __ _ _ ,
/|/ \o | | | | /| |
| __/ | | | | |___|
| \| |/ |/ | |\
|(__/|_/|__/|__/ | |/
It's a troublesome world. All the people who're in it
are troubled with troubles almost every minute.
You ought to be thankful, a whole heaping lot,
for the places and people you're lucky you're not!
- Dr. Seuss
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
Bill Hollingsworth wrote:
>
> On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Ben Laurie wrote:
>
> > The only snags with legOS at the moment (that I'm aware of) are:
> >
> > a) You have to pull a battery out to clear the RAM
> >
> > b) It seems to have a problem with corrupting itself somewhere that I
> > can't work out, and so far nor has Markus. It only shows in some
> > programs (typically only mine, in fact), which is doubly irritating!
>
> Hi,
> In what way does it corrupt itself?
I have code that should just increment/decrement some counters and
display them. The numbers get reset to strange values. This looks like
stack or register corruption, but I haven't yet found where or why
(yet). Wish I still did embedded systems so I had access to a logic
analyser :-)
Cheers,
Ben.
--
Ben Laurie |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant |Fax: +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd, |Apache-SSL author http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England. |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/
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Ben Laurie wrote in message <365E93F5.63ABFE6B@algroup.co.uk>...
> I have code that should just increment/decrement some counters and
> display them. The numbers get reset to strange values. This looks like
> stack or register corruption, but I haven't yet found where or why
> (yet). Wish I still did embedded systems so I had access to a logic
> analyser :-)
I do embedded systems WITHOUT a logic analyser. You can do about
99% of what you need to with a monitor and an oscilloscope. The
logic analyser (or emulator) is the big gun for the really nasty
bugs.
My own policy on embedded development is to pick one or two
processors and get to know them inside out. Then you can better
estimate the time required to do something because you have
some history.
Also, remember to pick a new "up and coming" processor so that your
skills continue to develop.
Sorry for the off topic post. Comments anyone - and lets's not start
a big Mac/PC type flame war, let's trade horror stories instead :-)
Cheers,
Ralph Hempel - P.Eng
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The train stops at the train station,
The bus stops at the bus station,
So why am I sitting at a work station?
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Reply to: rhempel at bmts dot com
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Ralph Hempel wrote:
> I do embedded systems WITHOUT a logic analyser. You can do about
> 99% of what you need to with a monitor and an oscilloscope. The
> logic analyser (or emulator) is the big gun for the really nasty
> bugs.
Agree with you totally there!
However, I have always found it useful to have a debugging version
of the kernel which allows you to use something like gdb to debug
your embedded system through a serial port.
> My own policy on embedded development is to pick one or two
> processors and get to know them inside out. Then you can better
> estimate the time required to do something because you have
> some history.
Sadly, the last embedded system I worked on was a TMS9900 some
years back - it was interesting though, 1200bps mains FM comms,
UART emulation, software modem, embedded control language etc.
> Sorry for the off topic post. Comments anyone - and lets's not start
> a big Mac/PC type flame war, let's trade horror stories instead :-)
Likewise but, sometimes, nostalgia overtakes me...
--
If it ain't opinionated, it ain't Rich Teer.
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Fred Read wrote in message <365EA592.62DE2792@corp.netcom.net.uk>...
> However, I have always found it useful to have a debugging version
> of the kernel which allows you to use something like gdb to debug
> your embedded system through a serial port.
That's what I meant by monitor - sorry I wasn't more clear...
Cheers,
Ralph Hempel - P.Eng
------------------------------------------------------
The train stops at the train station,
The bus stops at the bus station,
So why am I sitting at a work station?
------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: rhempel at bmts dot com
------------------------------------------------------
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Fred Read wrote:
>
> Ralph Hempel wrote:
> > I do embedded systems WITHOUT a logic analyser. You can do about
> > 99% of what you need to with a monitor and an oscilloscope. The
> > logic analyser (or emulator) is the big gun for the really nasty
> > bugs.
>
> Agree with you totally there!
Yeah, yeah. I'm sure we've all got "I debugged that with no more than an
LED and 3 inches of wire" stories, but only a fool would spurn a logic
analyser when it was available.
Cheers,
Ben.
--
Ben Laurie |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant |Fax: +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd, |Apache-SSL author http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England. |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/
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Ben Laurie wrote in message <36606582.FFA56883@algroup.co.uk>...
> Fred Read wrote:
> >
> > Ralph Hempel wrote:
> > > I do embedded systems WITHOUT a logic analyser. You can do about
> > > 99% of what you need to with a monitor and an oscilloscope. The
> > > logic analyser (or emulator) is the big gun for the really nasty
> > > bugs.
> >
> > Agree with you totally there!
>
> Yeah, yeah. I'm sure we've all got "I debugged that with no more than an
> LED and 3 inches of wire" stories, but only a fool would spurn a logic
> analyser when it was available.
Aha, the flame war has begun :-) I agree with you too Ben, only a fool
would spurn the analyser, but if you instrument your project properly
and really KNOW the system, you can often get by without one.
I have LOTS of experience with logic analysers and they are very useful.
Unfortunately they are generally too expensive for independent
consultants (like me).
As an engineer with extensive hardware and software background, my
favorite logic analyser story ended by showing the lead sofware guy on
a project where his code was failing, and then having him duplicate
it on his emulator! My part of the project was a controller communicating
with an intelligent remote module. I knew my stuff was right and the onus
was on me to prove otherwise. I could never have done it without
the analyser.
Nuff said, and I've GOT to get some free time to play with a Mindstorm...
Now that there is an independent OS, it's a LOT more interesting....
Cheers,
Ralph Hempel - P.Eng
------------------------------------------------------
The train stops at the train station,
The bus stops at the bus station,
So why am I sitting at a work station?
------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: rhempel at bmts dot com
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Laurent has a good point.
While I did not use and modify his code, I did find it during my
development and fear I have studied it too closely in places, without
crediting him.
I have removed access to my files from the server so we can discuss
this.
--
// Peter Pletcher peterp@autobahn.org
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Let me correct myself here.
I did end up using some of Laurent's communications code in the bytecode
compiler, after having experimented with some different approaches.
Honestly, I simply forgot to track down and credit the source, which is
no excuse.
I will correct the license and web pages and check that they meet with
his approval before proceeding further.
How embarrassing.
--
// Peter Pletcher peterp@autobahn.org
//
// A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
//
// - Roald Dahl (from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory)
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