Subject:
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Re: Relativity Question
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.geek
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Date:
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Wed, 8 Nov 2000 20:16:47 GMT
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Viewed:
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557 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.geek, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.geek, Matthew Miller writes:
>
> > Acceleration definitely plays into it. *All* clocks in non-accelerating
> > motion relative to an observer run slow by his/her frame of reference. (Thus
> > potentially causing arguments about what order things happened in.) But I
> > still don't get what determines who is the inertial observer and who is the
> > noninertial one.
>
> Not quite sure what you mean by "inertial" and "noninertial," since as you
> point out previously *everyone* is moving.
However, some are moving in a certain way as to make it indistuigishable as to
who is moving. i.e. me moving away from the universe is equivalent to universe
moving away from me.
> However, within a local inertial
> frame the Doppler shift of light can be identified to be of a particular
> character (I don't have the equations handy).
The equations are equivalent no matter what inertia frame the frequency of the
light is derived.
> Someone accelerating out of that inertial frame would experience additional
> doppler shift, by which we can determine who is the mover relative to the
> frame. The stationary observer will experience no such change to doppler
> shift.Having said that, I anticipate a followup question will be "but who's to
> say the whole inertial frame isn't accelerating away from the ship, and then
> what happens to time dilation?" Hmm...
>
> Dave!
The Principle of equivalence completely contradicts this, since acceleration is
exactly the same as gravity. This means that you cannot determine who is
accelerating from whom. i.e. a gravitational field is indistinguishable from
an accelerated frame.
For example: an observer accelerating away from a stationary observer would
experience the sensation of acceleration. Conversely, the stationary observer
would experience a gravitational field generated by the Universe accelerating
from the other observer. So neither could determine which is in the
accelerated inertia frame. Thus, all motion including acceleration is
relative.
Also the doppler shift measured by each observer will be the same, all
acceleration does is add an additional term as determined by the Lorentz
transformation.
A little technical but I think it's correct.
Thanks
Jay Jacinto
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Relativity Question
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| (...) Well, thanks for throwing a monkey wrench into it for me. How do the famous de-synchronized clocks fit into this? Obviously one of them slowed down relative to the other. Do we infer that the ground-based clock decelerated sufficiently to (...) (24 years ago, 8-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Relativity Question
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| (...) Not quite sure what you mean by "inertial" and "noninertial," since as you point out previously *everyone* is moving. However, within a local inertial frame the Doppler shift of light can be identified to be of a particular character (I don't (...) (24 years ago, 8-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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