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		Re: All important (was: Amtrak Told to Plan Liquidation)
(...) Sorry for bringing it up again, but this is exactly why I think it's unfair to lumber plane passengers with the entire cost of "global security". ROSCO (23 years ago, 10-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: Customs question...
(...) I agree with David. A sale is a sale. If you received any payment for it, it's merchandise. Even if you only paid for shipping. Anything else is lying, at least to yourself, and possibly to the world at large when you make such a specious (...) (23 years ago, 19-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues (Warning: even wordier than usual)
(...) But as you of all people konw, science doesn't declare truths; it's a system of explanation endlessly refined to fit more closely with observation. Christianity, by contrast, declares certain absolutes that remain absolute regardless of (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues (Warning: even wordier than usual)
(...) I don't understand the goal in seperating this from the question of asking how believers know God to be. If you accept that they know that God exists at all, why not accept that they know God to be good as just part of the definition of God? (...) (23 years ago, 18-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
(...) Any of us can construct nonsensical statements. How big is yellow? A square circle. 2+2=5. Whatever. How can any being do the logically impossible? That which our imaginations may conceive cannot be the standard which a Greater Being must (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: Customs question...
(...) No, I don't think all lies are equal. But shouldn't we try to avoid lying when and where we can? As I already said in a reply to Richard, the end result is that you, for yourself, have to decide what works for you in your life. What "Little (...) (23 years ago, 13-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: Customs question...
(...) Is it OK if you're starving and stealing food from someone who has more than they need? (...) I should. I have made it a long-term life-philosophy. But not because of some notion of right and wrong. I have two reasons. The first is that I want (...) (23 years ago, 17-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
This is a helluva lot more rambling than I'm comfortable with... (...) Ah -- I think I see what happened. You had replied to my message, in a fairly (imho) personal kinda way ("personal" as though one person addressing another, not "personal" as in (...) (23 years ago, 15-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
(...) But that puts us squarely back in the "is it all true or not" debate, and how does one distinguish biblical truth from biblical falsehood? I'm not putting this forth as an all-or-nothing question, and I'm delighted to accept the assertion that (...) (23 years ago, 14-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: The Nam-shub of Enki (was Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament)
I just thought it was a neat story with a groovy idea is all... If you want to read motivations or morals into a book, there's always the bible. I'm sure it even talks about the evils of a hirarchical government in there -somewhere- ;0) "richard (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: The Nam-shub of Enki (was Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament)
(...) Yeah, it's a decent read. I'll give it that. It's just that I liked all the extensive quoting more than the actual story. (...) Doh! But don't you think that Stephenson is developing an ethical system defended by his Hiro? We agree with those (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues (Warning: even wordier than usual)
(...) So in other words, you're changing your definition of impossible. You are restricting impossible to mean "impossible within my frame of reference". (...) Dave E addressed this more eloquently than I can, I suspect, so I will only comment that (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
(...) I propose that human moral awareness is self-evident from the fact that all non- intellectually or emotionally impaired humans for as long as we have record have possessed an innate belief, sense, and faculty for moral calculus. So yes, my (...) (23 years ago, 15-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
(...) You're saying (in essence) that if God exists, that existence must by definition be without limits. If that's what you're getting at, then I think you need to take a look at how you are using impossible. Impossible, by my understanding, is (...) (23 years ago, 15-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues (Warning: even wordier than usual)
(...) If you're asserting that a universe in which more people are legitimately saved is less desirable than a universe in which fewer people are legimately saved, then I think we have another debate on our hands. Besides which, 'don't criticize (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues (Warning: even wordier than usual)
(...) We're arguing semantics, I think, over the meaning of "impossible". I am suggesting that if there are absolute limits, they limit everything (including God). You are stating that if there are are absolute limits, God can't exist. That doesn't (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues (Warning: even wordier than usual)
(...) This 5-response string of linear debate was so remarkably thorough and compicated in its exigesis, and so many Jameses were postulated, quoted, and deconstructed that I am frankly coming to doubt my own identity. A friend and i have recently (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
(...) 8^) What's your problem, anyway? I was getting set to demonize you and burn you in effigy, and then you turn out to have been reasonable all along! 8^) (...) Ah! My fault. My use of "nonsense" was intended with a note of irony (which, as is (...) (23 years ago, 15-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
(...) Wow. On face value I can't find any reason why I disagree with your summation of my view. I would ammend, however, the idea that God doesn't care about our measure against the yardstick, if we remain consistent with the level of our own moral (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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		Re: One of my issues (Warning: even wordier than usual)
(...) What I was attempting to do was provide a conception of a being that can perform what throughout this debate has been considered a logical impossibility. I don't see how offering one criterion without excluding others is a restriction on (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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