Subject:
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Re: One of my issues (Warning: even wordier than usual)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:04:09 GMT
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Viewed:
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3341 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton writes:
>
> > I could try the turn-around on you:
> >
> > - Science is wrong, cuz it says the world is flat.
> > - That's not *real* science, that's been disproven
> > - Ok then, science is wrong because it professes the existance of ether.
> > - Well, that's not *real* science either because that's [also] been disproven.
>
> But as you of all people konw, science doesn't declare truths; it's a
> system of explanation endlessly refined to fit more closely with
> observation. Christianity, by contrast, declares certain absolutes that
> remain absolute regardless of evolving comprehension.
>
> > Etc. Just because you're eager to debate someone who believes in these ideals
> > doesn't mean that the person you *are* debating clings to them.
>
> If James were any kind of pal, he'd believe what I tell him to believe, so
> I can refute him more easily!
>
> > which experiences are unique to *you*? How do you decide which
> > experience relates to you, and which relates to a part of you? And provided
> > that, would another being be capable of sharing certain experiences? Or does
> > perspective matter? And if perspective matters, then we're presupposing an
> > existance of something to perspect to, hence circular reasoning. Ick!
>
> Well, if any two things exist, then each can be considered in relation to
> (from the perspective of) the other. Perspective results, at its most
> basic, from
> I would say an experience can be shared but can't be perfectly shared,
>
> > > I'm afraid that analogy fails because any comparision between an infinite
> > > God and any finite entity is invalid. However, I would still be "me"
> > > without a cell, but that cell would not still be "me."
> >
> > Ooo, I tried to make you avoid the trap, but you walked in. How many cells do
> > you need to lose before you're no longer you? Which cells? In what grouping?
>
> Heh. Not really a trap, though; "I" am that portion still able to assert
> that it is "I," most likely the part that retains sentience (such as it is).
> If by some malfunction of the transporter "I" am split in two, then each is
> able to call itself "I," but neither is the same "I" that "I" am.
> In any case, the analogy still fails for God the Infinite (unless you're
> finally admitting that *I'm* infinite, in which case I say "It's about time!")
>
> > Again, I think you're focusing on Christianity in general rather than James's
> > view on it, which I thing "should" be the subject at hand. Doubtless I agree
> > that certain sects of Christianity are wrong. But in order to disprove
> > Christianity at large, you'll have to pick it apart to its bare bones and
> > disprove one or all of them, not idle on the specifics which aren't universal
> > for Xtianity.
>
> Ah. Point conceded (at least as it pertains to James' view specifically).
>
> Dave!
This 5-response string of linear debate was so remarkably thorough and
compicated in its exigesis, and so many Jameses were postulated, quoted, and
deconstructed that I am frankly coming to doubt my own identity.
A friend and i have recently been debating issues pertaining to personhood. A
chief subject has been to explore the intricacies of personhood if:
1) Your brain were removed to another body.
2) All of your brain's neural functions were transferred into a brain grown in a
lab such that your memories and emotional states remained unchanged in the new
organ
Where would reside your personhood? In either scenario, are you the same
person, or a different person with the shadow of another person grafted in?
james
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Peronhood (was One of my issues)
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| (...) a (...) On initial inspection, I'd say the latter - those memories & neural functions are (IMO) based on the combination of body / brain in which they reside. Suddenly changing that would cause...well I don't really know what it would cause, (...) (25 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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