Subject:
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Re: Is space property?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:59:14 GMT
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Viewed:
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348 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > Just a minor nitpick; if the money to fund such killings is taken from you
> > against your will and beyond your reasonable power to resist, you are not
> > morally responsible for what is done with that money. If a person breaks
> > into your house and steals some money, buys a bat with it, and clubs someone
> > to death, you're not responsible in any way. Even if I give you five
> > bucks-- without having any say in its spending--and you buy a glass with it,
> > break it, and kill me with the shards, have I morally committed suicide?
> The payment of taxes is (normally considered) a proper and right thing. So
> it feels different (even to me) than being burgled. (How often do you
> write a check to your burgler?)
8^)
I make it a habit only to be burgled by people who accept Visa.
I might be unknowingly straddling two issues here; I'm comparing taxation
with burglary in terms of the "taxation is theft" principle I've read, but
perhaps that's not precisely how this discussion is going.
> And, I do know that the recipient of my money is going to behave immorally
> with it. I may not know the specifics, but I'm sure from year to year that
> our government will engage in heinous crimes funded in part by my tax
> dollars. And it disturbs me. Not only that, but the fact
> that it disturbs me and that I continue to go along because the alternative
> would be difficult disturbs me too. I _could_ not pay taxes. But the cost to
> me and my family would be great. So I really am complicit in the behavior of
> the government even when it makes me sick.
If you really think that then you're being too hard on yourself. Your
responsibility for the use of your money ends when your ability to affect
its spending ends.
To use a grossly comic example: If someone knocks you unconscious and
throws you off a bridge and you land on and kill someone, are you guilty of
murder? Are you somehow complicit in the killing just because you had no
knowing and reasonable way to prevent it? Is the murder victim responsible
for his death because he walked under a bridge?
For the record I'm trying to avoid the equivocation of responsibility-vs-
blame that has mired some previous discussions. This whole topic harkens
back to the McCoffee Thigh Burn debates; it depends on where people apply
responsibility and how far they are willing to extend it. Is the inventor
of the baseball bat responsible for any subsequent misdoings with bats?
(For that matter, are Smith & Wesson responsible for ensuring that parents
apply trigger locks to their guns?) Absolutely not--ther responsibility
extends only as far as their reasonable ability to affect the use of their
product (or property).
> You say that if someone steals my money and buys a bat, that I'm not
> responsible for what is done. What if my gun is stolen, sold in the
> underground weapons market, and is used to murder?
If you've taken steps appropriate to the property involved (money or guns)
and that property is stolen nonetheless, your responsibility again ends when
your ability to control that property ends. Since the gun is dangerous in
itself (I know, I know--it's the person not the gun, but for the sake of
argument...) while money is not, the appropriate level of security for a gun
(or a bat, or dynamite, or cleaning solutions or any reasonably dangerous
item) is more strict than for money (or cotton balls or spoons).
> It's easy to say the same thing for that scenario, but what if I left the gun
> sitting on my porch where anyone could take it? Don't we bear some
> responsibility for what happens with our stuff?
Sure! But our responsibility is to make reasonably sure that the item
isn't misused while we have control over access to it. If you lock your gun
in a floor-mounted vault and someone still manages to steal it, your
responsibility for what happens to the gun after it's stolen is minimal,
since you've taken reasonable and appropriate steps to prevent unauthorized
access to it. If you leave the gun on your porch, then your responsibility
extends beyond your porch. How far, exactly, I can't say, but certainly you
would bear some responsibility for its misuse.
> I think that as a fairly hard-line property rights (and second amendment) guy,
> I have to also acknowledge property (and arms) responsibility.
Absolutely--personal responsibility is paramount! At issue for you and
me, though, seems to be where it's applied and where it ends.
Dave!
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Is space property?
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| (...) Hi Dave, I get your point, but... The payment of taxes is (normally considered) a proper and right thing. So it feels different (even to me) than being burgled. (How often do you write a check to your burgler?) And, I do know that the (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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