Subject:
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Re: Age limitations
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 6 Jul 2000 06:42:45 GMT
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Viewed:
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125 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Steve Bliss writes:
> In lugnet.org.us, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
>
> > Funny, in the US anyway, it seems that the public transit that works the best
> > was built a long time ago by private companies, and the public transit built
> > recently in cities that didn't have any doesn't usually work at all.
>
> So you're saying the public transportation needs to be in place before the
> city?
No, not exactly. More like it has to be driven by market forces. NY subway,
arguably one of the best US ones (in terms of routes, connections and coverage
possible), is a socialized amalgam of several competing subway lines that were
built by private companies all trying to serve customers and make money at it.
Ditto for Chicago, and ditto for Boston.
Your LA example is from today, and you're right, it stinks. jump in the wayback
machine and go to LA 80 years ago and you'll see a great public transit net.
Which GM bought up and bus-ized, then shut down the buses.
The people in this thread calling for fully allocated costs are spot on. If we
had those (instead of an amorphous pot of "highway money" that got slushed and
porked to suit the powerful congressmen and highway contractors) people would
drive less and private transit companies would flourish.
Again, Zurich is anomalous, it's very dense and it's socialized but (in
response to Dave S.) I indeed was able to go shopping using the tram. I hit 4
toy shops that were all over the city in a matter of 90 minutes, it took me
about 9 different tram/bus rides and i never had to wait for a tram or byus
more than 5 minutes at any transfer or stop. I estimate that even if I knew
where I was going, driving myself would have taken at least 2 - 3 hours in the
traffic. And on the tram I could sit down, look at the map and plan my next
transfer or two instead of worrying about rearending the guy in front of me
while I looked for street signs.
I like living in a big house on a huge lot with a pool, I'm not ready to give
that up and live cheek by jowl with my neighbors. But I am willing to drive my
car (or ride a bike) to a parking lot that's close to me and get on a dense,
privately owned, well planned transit network.
It's doable. It's a crime that we are using petroleum feedstocks to move one
person and 4500 pounds of metal around instead of using them to make plastic
bricks with. But I vociferously oppose any public policy that forces me not to
use my car. Set the market free in this area (by allocating costs honestly) and
the problem will solve itself. Eventually.
++Lar
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Age limitations
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| (...) I'm familiar with that Boston trolley history, but NY is a little different. The underground lines for the most part date from a 1900 city-financed project let out to a contractor. It was charted to serve Manhattan and the Bronx. Other (...) (24 years ago, 6-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Age limitations
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| (...) I used to do a Christmastime shopping spree in Boston using the T. I would walk down to a bus station from my mom's house (a 5 minute walk), and then hit a bunch of stores all over Boston (and one out in Malden). My spree was not as efficient (...) (24 years ago, 6-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Age limitations
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| (...) I have no doubt that an effective mass transit system is possible, and in some regions even necessary, but in the (only) five cities where I've lived, mass transit couldn't compete against cars for convenience. I guess that's my thesis, in (...) (24 years ago, 6-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Age limitations
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| (...) So you're saying the public transportation needs to be in place before the city? Makes sense to me -- if a city-organism is in the mode of transporting by car, it makes little sense to for it to jump to public transportation mode, just because (...) (24 years ago, 5-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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