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(...) One problem there (among many) is that there has been no invasion and no rebellion. A single attack does not an invasion make, so there is literally no justification for suspension of habeas corpus. Dave! (18 years ago, 24-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) A single attack can make a rebellion if it is by a citizen of the country. I can't remember if any of the Sept 11 bombers were US citizens but if so I would argue it indeed was a part of a rebellion. Tim (18 years ago, 24-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) "Single attack"? Do you forget (among many others) the first bombing at the WTC, Dave!? Maybe this debate needs to begin with the idea of whether or not we are at war. Are we? JOHN (18 years ago, 24-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) Of course not--RW radio mentions it daily, every time they blame Clinton for 9/11. (...) Okay, so two attacks in a decade constitute an invasion? Sorry, but "invasion" implies the insertion of a substantial military presence into the target (...) (18 years ago, 24-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) Only because no other scenario was imagined. So it would be your opinion that, if a scenario of terrorist attacks like 9-11 were somehow proposed to the FF, they wouldn't include that form of violence in their "invasion or rebellion" (...) (18 years ago, 24-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) It's pretty sketchy. You could define "rebellion" as a group of citizens who take action against the government. But does that action necessarily require that it's an armed action, or a physically destructive one? What if they were hacking in (...) (18 years ago, 24-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) Sorry, Tim--I missed your post, or I would have responded earlier. DaveE has already offered good thoughts on this point, but I'd go in a slightly different direction. In my view, a rebellion necessarily consists of a viably large body of (...) (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) If most of them weren't US citizens then I agree with the latter part of this argument. With Terror tactics and WMDs (such as a Boeing 747) then a viable body of rebels doesn't have to be large. Were the hijackers US citizens by and large then (...) (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) The 9/11 guys weren't US citizens (I think one or two were). But hasn't the UK had trouble with terrorism by citizens? (not the Ireland troubles, but the 21st century kind). Tim (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Yeah. Most (if not all) of the Tube bombers and failed tube bombers were UK citizens. Many of them were even born here. I'd personally count that as rebellion. Tim (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) My sediments exactly;-) JOHN (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Agreed. So much for .debate! :-D Tim (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Hard to say, honestly. I've been giving this some more thought, and it seems to me that a necessary component of rebellion is a desire to break from the targeted nation (or break from some or all of its policies) without necessarily requiring (...) (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) The ostensible goal of Al Quadea is to create an international Islamic State by force. Since this would involve overturning the policies of nations and the acts of terror are (ostensibly) designed to create a situation in which this can happen (...) (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) Yup. (...) Yes. And why I think Specter was being obtuse. (...) And not nearly enough "John's":-) JOHN (18 years ago, 25-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Where's Larry and Hoppy when you need 'em???
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(...) If that's true, then the appropriate course of action must be to err on the side of preserving liberty. Instead, in the fear-soaked aftermath of 9/11, we saw the Congress tripping over itself in its abdicate its Constitutional responsibility, (...) (18 years ago, 26-Jan-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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