Subject:
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Re: Repost, for the benefit of those on newsreaders
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 31 May 2005 14:24:06 GMT
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Viewed:
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2290 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Thomas Stangl wrote:
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Have it your way, Burger King, but I still say it is a waste of time and
energy. Dems should be focusing on the future fate of their party, because
it is a mess from my viewpoint.
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So in other words you have no problem with a voting system that is rigged?
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That’s my whole point, Tom! The election wasn’t rigged, for pete’s sake!
Why is it that every time the Dems loose it must be due to fraud? Deal with
reality! Dems should be more worried that their party has been hijacked
by Lefty wackos like
Howard Dean MM
and George Soros. That is the problem.
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On the contrary--the problem facing the Democratic party is that it has too
long embraced a policy of placating the Republicans in the hope of catching
some right-leaning moderates. As a result, the party has compromised its
identity.
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What do you think should be the platforms of the Democratic Party?
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It is NOT a waste of time and energy to track down voting fraud, as it will
make it harder to do the same in the future.
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But it is a waste of time and energy to look for something that simply isn’t
there, which apparently is easier than accepting the painful truth that
America is more and more rejecting the Democratic party.
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On what basis, other than the assertion of devoted Conservatives, do you
conclude that nothing is there? Do you have some evidence, or are you taking
their assertion on faith because it meshes with your preferences?
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My evidence of nothing? Better, where is the evidence of wrongdoing?
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to the detainees (who’ve been held without documented
justificaation and tortured),
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I trust that any treatment given to detainees is either better than they
deserve or justly deserved, and thus won’t apologize to them.
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That’s pure witnessing, and it assumes a moral authority that the United
States never had to begin with, much less now.
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I disagree. These people fought against US forces. They are enemies of the
state.
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The United States of America.
It is what it is.
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Such a stunning non-answer.
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Really? Perhaps you would like to define it, if you can (if it’s even
possible). I meant what I said: whatever our culture is at the moment, that
is what it is. I don’t know how else to describe it.
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That’s asinine. You declared in your previous post that Arabs hate our
culture, and yet you now declare that our culture can’t be defined beyond an
impotent “is what it is” legalistic orwellism. That speaks of a self-serving
fatalism in which “they” will always hate “us,” so that we might as well
keep on killing them.
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They hate materialism. They hate Capitalism. The hate Democracy. They hate
secularism. We are all of that. They will always hate that, yes.
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It is a war of values. Other nations oppose Capitalism, but mostly they
oppose our values. I object to the alarming loss of values in our
country. But I work to instill and restore good values, not incinerate
those with whom I disagree.
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Your beloved President engaged in a policy of civilian incineration during
the seige of Falujah, so your grandstanding here is both irrelevant and
poorly timed.
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To require no civilian loss in war is so disengenuous. Innocents will be killed
in war. Fact of life.
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Additionally, since you claim that our culture can’t be
defined (yet you are willing to claim that we are hated for it), would you
care to define our values? Not your values, and not my values, but
our values--what are they, again?
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Boiled down-- Freedom. We value freedom above all. They value death above all.
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Again with the fraud. It’s interesting-- I remember Dems talking about
Diebold fraud months before the election. Forget it, Tom. It’s a canard.
I am trying to give you some good advice, but I know that you will never
accept the truth because it is simply too painful. Why else cling to the
notion without tangible evidence so tenaciously?
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John, this statement is uncharacteristically arrogant of you--what’s going on
here?
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I’m tired of Dems complaining about election fraud. It gets old after 6
years...
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You simply are not in a position to absolve Diebold of guilt, and--since
Diebold is on record declaring that it would “give Ohio” to the
President, the burden is on Diebold, with its absolute secrecy and
nonexistent accountability, to demonstrate that no wrongdoing occurred.
Until this is demonstrated, suspicions about Diebold’s role in the election
are justified.
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Fine. As I stated before, I believe it is a waste of time. The future of the
party should be the focus.
<snip>
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No, Tom. What I call a disaster is a nuke denotated in either LA or NYC or
both. Your list above looks like chump change by comparison.
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Irrelevant. Hussein was known not to possess nuclear weapons,
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Thanks to an illegal attack by Israel...
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and everything
we know about him indicates that, if he’d had them, he would not have
given them to terrorists out of his control.
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HA! Thanks for that laugh. Sorry, I’m afraid I’m not willing to risk our
security on some pop psychologist’s eval of SH!
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You’re simply parroting the
party’s talking points about Saddam-shaped mushroom clouds, and it’s still a
deliberate falsehood.
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Do you deny that he was seeking to possess nukes?
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We will hemhorrage money until we’re bankrupt, if idiots like Bush continue
to make it into office. How we can be so arrogant as to think we can’t be
spent into the ground like the USSR was, is beyond me.
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We can’t afford not to throw everything we have at terrorism at this
juncture in order to thwart the unthinkable in the future.
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That’s foolish. In terms of lives lost, the spread of HIV is a far greater
problem in the US and elsewhere, yet the money spend on research for a cure
is nary a pittance next to the obsence sums handed over to defense
contractors.
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The defense contractors DO provide things in return...
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Even if the goal is to combat the source of terrorism, then killing even a
million terrorists would be futile, as long as the source remains. As such,
we will continue to hemhorrage money until we as a nation recognize that
Dubya’s strategy is entirely ill-suited to the task at hand.
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What do you say is the source?
JOHN
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