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(...) I don't think anyone is saying we should kill innocents. Official statements refer to "those responsible". However, regrettably some collateral damage is unavoidable. As a side note: when did this notion of "killing the innocent" in war arise? (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) A lot has been picked over in terms of the rhetoric of peace, so fine...Does the euphemism "collateral damage" mean human lives? How can you be so callous? Aren't we in hell already? (...) What does "historically theirs" mean? I'd like an (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) Not callous, realistic. War is messy. Some bullets/bombs go astray. I'm not saying it's acceptable - just true. Every death is a tragedy. A deeper tragedy is that men choose evil and cause death needlessly. (...) huh? (...) At a specific time (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) The declaration of war on the Barbary Pirates seems to have been constitutional... it's the closest analogue to a declaration of war on "terrorists", I'd say. Our borders were attacked and in this day and age that may require force projection (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) I don't have a problem with a short and sweet black ops kinda thing executed with as close to surgical precision as we can get. I would prefer capture to killing for a variety reasons (i.e. no martyrs, we stay stainless before the world, (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) let me add to this then - there has _always_ been a jewish settlement in Israel. Way before 1948. And since the late the 1880s, there has been a secular-jewish settlemens in Israel as well. So the UN did not give "a third group" a land that (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) Didn't those folks actually go in and buy land from people who they sincerely and with good foundation believed to be the rightful owners at the time (1) rather than settle lands from which the previous owners had been evicted, which is the (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) This is what the Romans did to Israel. So which claim is legitimate then? Israel's or the Palestinians? (...) From the governed, do they not? Either by consent or by conceding. At any rate, the governed allow what becomes. (...) But what would (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) [snip] (...) From whence does the 'legitimate ownership' of property arise? I say there is no such thing. Chris (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) I can see the argument. But... No matter what? What is the alternative, though? Property belongs to whoever has the bigger gun? (23 years ago, 15-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) It's a nice idea, but since this is a 'War on Terrorism' and terrorist keep popping up where they aren't wanted, it's time to bear down for an extended game of 'Whack a Mole'. (tounge in check, but an interesting visual for me) (...) Well, (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) Actually, I think the notion of ownership of real estate is corrupt not only because we can't possibly track it back to an original "fair" owner and then trace it forward to who ought to own it (for the most part), but also because I think (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) And given that metaphor I fail to see why it's a good idea. The need for vengeance will wear thin, and reality will set in. I insist that given a possibly impossible task, we should look for longer-lasting alternatives to war. And a lot of (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) You don't specifically state this, but it seems the suggestion is that Koresh was a terrorist. You do know that that's incorrect, don't you? And further, that he (and his) was(were) victimized by the US people -- rather than the other way (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) C'mon, you have it all wrong!!! We don't go around doing bad things. We are the "good guys." And anyway, the U.S. Government co-signed it so that makes it okay... ...its "US" (U.S.?) or "THEM", right? -- Hop-Frog (who sips his Ruby Ridge over (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) I never claimed it was a good idea. I'm just pointing out that no good ideas have spung from this. We've proven in the past that quick surgical strikes slow the problem down, but don't stop it simply because zealots are willing to use their (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) No, I make the suggestion that Koresh and his followers were fanatics. You don't have to be a terrorist to be fanatical. I'm pointing out that misguided religious folk make excellent fanatics. Give people what they want, and they will follow (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Response to Misinformation (Some other perspectives on the tragedy)
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(...) No, we just put a spin on it to make it look like we do. (...) Yep, apparently that's what it now is. (...) -Dave (23 years ago, 16-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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