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(...) One (somewhat) recent success story of US inteventionist warfare was the spectacular liberation of Cuba from the evil clutches of Spain. And look how well that turned out! Dave! (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) Agreed (...) <snip> (...) I'd like to discuss where Saddam would be if the 'willing' stopped their war now. He's been saying "God is on our side!" and if the willing stop, SH will be, well, I don't know where he'll be, but I feel that it won't (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) Can you cite even one example of where this has happened before? Where else have we bombed people into accepting democracy? True, the absence of precedence doesn't make the occurrence of such a democracy impossible, but I would suggest the (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) I'm not sure that's true. I think it's more of wanting to take the best next step from wherever you find yourself. Before the violence commenced, Larry thought the best step was not to start the violence. Now, given that we're going to be (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Well, it is a simplification of things -- but the pro-peace movement also needs its own soundbite. "No blood for oil!" has been a kind of code for larger issues, obviously. Ignoring ethical concerns for now, longer-term I can't see the (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) That's just being a pro-war accomplice after the fact. Sorry, no previous moral opposition gives anyone moral safety to now just go ahead and support this great evil. No one would delight in american defeat -- that's madness. I presume defeat (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My Concession (for John mostly)
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(...) Along those lines: (URL) opposed getting into this war but now that we're in it I want to win. Unlike some here, I suspect, who would delight in an American defeat. (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Maybe I'm getting my timeframe messed up, though I understand that bin Laden's particular beef is with the continued US military presence in the region (apparently greatly increased following Gulf War I). Dave! (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes: <snip> (...) Watching CNN all weekend, except Sunday when I watched PBS, and the other political shows on NBC and CBS... Constant theme now--"We tried the fast approach, and were hopeing that (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) I can’t find a cite , but I thought the US bases dated back to WW2? Scott A (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | In the name of freedom
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Iraq - In the shadow of war: backlash against human rights (URL) the military action by the USA, UK and their allies began in Iraq on 20 March, a backlash against certain human rights has been witnessed around the world. These include: * attacks on (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) I'm just not familiar enough with Blair to say, beyond I suspect he likes the idea of acting tough. Bush probably has several agendas, though the weight of each is unknown: Inherited hostility: The enemy of my father is my enemy. Though Bush (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Interestingly, there *IS* an undeniable link between Saddam and the actions and al-Qaeda; bin Laden has explicitly stated that his motives derive in part from his disgust at the overbearing presence of US military in Saudia Arabia. Of course, (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Don't you just love our freedom loving allies? Turkey: End sexual torture against women in custody! (URL) A (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Even that funded by Pakistan? (...) Me too. I'd love to hear what he has to say. Likewise for SH. Do you think Bush would want us to hear about their version of events? (...) Why just "to the United States and her citizens"? (...) Evidence? (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) I think he's much less dangerous than people like you, John. Because Richard, while often extremely annoying, is more interested in everyone's freedom from oppression. You, however, are one of the most oppressive people in this forum, and if (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) BuzzFlash asks Greg Palast: "What the Heck is Going on With Tony Blair?" (URL) Tony has figured out a way to shoot down a couple of enemies at once. All politics is local, including international relations. Tony Blair is using the war on (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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I actually do agree with you on a few points here. I agree that Bush’s diplomacy was imperfect. I, however, believe the other side. I think he spent far too much time in debate and discussion. I have little patience for diplomatic posturing and (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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(...) Bush's justifications for this war changed almost weekly, it seemed. Now, within the terms of diplomacy, this can be understandable to a point as you may find it advantagous to emphasize different aspects to different people, but it seems more (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | My over-simplification of the anti-war movement
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I don’t have the chance to respond with the same level of frequency here on OTD as many of the regulars, so this may sound like a hit and run, as I will voice my opinion and probably not respond to rebuttals in a timely fashion. I, however, desired (...) (22 years ago, 31-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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