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(...) idea (...) from (...) The existence of a creator, to me, implies that he's still hanging around. Since there is no evidence to support that, and it seems like there would have to be if He were really there, I choose to go with spontaneous (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Okay, that's interesting to me that you would acknowledge a resistance the idea of the existence of a Creator. Taken all the way to the beginning, one needs to agree on *some* starting point. Either you believe it all just started from (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, I am not the one claiming to be a messenger of something that no one wants to hear about in debate. John is claiming such a thing, in addition to all other kinds of rights to judge others via morals, politics, what have you...maybe not (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) evidence (...) I want to start by acknowledging a significant resistance to the idea that an ultimate creator exists at all. That would certainly color my acceptance of evidence. I'm only saying this so that you don't feel the need to point it (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) <huge honkin' snip> I really have no particular desire to get into what seems to be a private battle here, but calling John out for his beliefs and saying he isn't a Christian because he doesn't follow a strictly biblical teaching isn't (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) They also mummify the pope. I'm not sure if this is a belief that he will come back in another life but it is clearly descendent from pharoh rituals. Unfortunatly the messed up the last one pretty bad ;-) cheers, Joseph (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) (Not only the English speaking world - the Atlantic Coast of mainland Europe still retains lots of celtic traditions, many of which later influenced local christian communities :-) (...) True indeed. In fact, I believe that the Papacy has in (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Absolutely to all that. I mention the the Celtic (Druidic) traditions because they are the ones that permeate the English speaking world. Praying to Saints for intervention is little removed from Roman ancestor worship that were elevated to (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Not only "celtics" have criptic-pagan traditions (if the term can be used). If you look at the way that catholic mediterranean cultures revere the many saints, you may find it as a late expression of roman polytheism... For instance, the (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Read "The Winter Solstice" by John Matthews. Christian and pagan traditions have merged, often to the displeasure of the Christian Powers That Were At The Time. Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but then my great-grandmother left out (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I really have no idea what John Neal believes or why he believes it. I know he claims to be a Xtian -- but I see precious little evidence that he either reads, understands, or follows the words of Jesus (in the future, it is my intention to (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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I see. You've proved yet again you are a stubborn, knee-jerk Bible-thumper. Instead of gathering data to prove Richard's assertions wrong, you just launch into whacko ranting in an attempt to discredit HIM rather than his data. If you want to prove (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, I guess that's it. I may as well admit it-- I am a pagan, and I didn't even know it! And all of Christianity turns out to be a farce! Who knew? Richard did. Richard, that faith-crushin', intellectual GIANT knew it all along. With one (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) *Some?* 4 posts ago I gave you gold about this subject and this is your half- witted reply? Xmas and Easter ARE pagan holidays, often practiced with a Xtian veneer. That's it, there is no more. (...) Okay, so if I now asserted as a fact that (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Okay, I may have jumped the gun here. Would you provide an example of evidence (hypothetically speaking if necessary) which would lead you to believe in the existence of a God? -John (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) I think the issue here was my interpretation of your specific problem with Creationism wherein you said: (...) The issue I was attempting to discuss here (if you trace back) is with the 2nd item in your list: "does not make any predictions (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) No, scenario 1 has 1 element: the Creator. The Creator is alone until the creator creates something from literary nothing. The creator and the kernal are the same thing-- the beginning point. -John (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Okay, so you are saying that some Christians incorporate pagan traditions into their celebrations of Christmas and Easter. (...) That may be. As far as Christmas trees go, I think what has happened is that traditions have been borrowed and (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Are you asking if post hoc reasoning is scientific? No--it's actually one of the hallmarks of pseudoscience, like palmistry or astrology or Creationism. (...) For the umpteenth time in this debate you have presented the falacy known as "the (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I'd say you're accurate-- both statements are (AFIAK) equally valid. Which is precicely why "science" says neither of them, but instead says "I dunno, I won't commit to either option" DaveE (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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