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in article Gntz4y.IMp@lugnet.com, David Eaton at deaton@intdata.com wrote on 12/4/01 11:55 AM: (...) Sorry; I didn't read your too well, and I shouldn't have shot me mouth off. I suspect the attraction is largely chemical/hormonal, and that is (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: gay by birth vs. gay by choice
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in article Gnty9D.Fty@lugnet.com, David Eaton at deaton@intdata.com wrote on 12/4/01 11:36 AM: (...) Which is what Catholicism DOES in fact say. Rob (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm not sure where to go with this part of the debate without actually veering into a no-holds-barred religious debate. The idea of sin is based on faith, that immorality is a wrong against a god. As such, sin could never be proven or (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm not sure I follow you -- why couldn't a gay-gene be maintained in a heterozygote sub-population, like many other recessive traits? (...) Well give it a go!! But given the lack of extant ancestor species, apes seem like the best bet for (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) True. That would not fit the requirements of a default setting for the gay-gene though. (...) I do know of the cases. I'm looking for a different pattern, not sure how to fit it into words. (...) Did humans evolve in an environment that would (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cheap Scientist (Re: Doing the Discover Mag Rag )
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(...) As I was going through my inbox right after I posted about this I found the same message Scott posted. I should read all my mail when it arrives. Thanks Scott -chris (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) But genes that inhibit reproduction _can_ be inherited, recessively. Cf cystic fibrosis (without treatment sufferers die before puberty). (...) Try a little google search for "homosexual bonobo". My thoughts, such as they are: I think the "why (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cheap Scientist (Re: Doing the Discover Mag Rag )
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(...) Buy it buy it! Each week a fresh issue delivered to your mailbox, to (cherish/ tear articles out of/ swat bugs with) for only a buck a pop -- what a bargain! Thanks for the ref Scott. // Dave (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: gay by birth vs. gay by choice... who cares!
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(...) Is the first on cited on this page? (first result returned by google) (URL) interesting... -chris (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) No, it does doesn't. Pattern does usually follow process though. It would have to be the default(1). The only ones who matter(2) in evolution are the ones who reproduce, so therefore how can it be that we should incapable of reproduction? (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cheap Scientist (Re: Doing the Discover Mag Rag )
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That is cheap. Hmm... buy it or use the library copy.... decisions decisions (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: gay by birth vs. gay by choice
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(...) Essentially, it implies that similarly being homosexual is the same as being heterosexual :) IE if I sinned by thinking that the waitress is hot, I sin equally by thinking that a waiter is hot. Again, as long as I know not to act on my (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The Bible simply IS part of the discussion. Christians and homosexuals alike have argued it to such a degree that it is difficult have a discussion of only homosexuality. For what it's worth, when I began debating gay-by-birth elsewhere, a (...) (23 years ago, 4-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Clearly, "4,000 yrs. of religious doctrine" must include more than just the Bible. The Bible, as we know it today, was not available 4,000 years ago. Take an example. According to Jewish belief, Jesus is not the son of God. According to (...) (23 years ago, 4-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I was only speaking from a hypothetical standpoint and not voicing my own opinion. My viewpoint is the same as yours, but from the Catholic standpoint, you just commited a sin (the thought is the same as the action), so what does that imply? (...) (23 years ago, 4-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." This has what to do with homosexuality? (...) "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not (...) (23 years ago, 4-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Nah. I would say that we still have the ability to overcome the desire given to us by the gene. Just like I might have the urge to cheat on my wife. Genetic? Of course! I mean, that waitress is hot! Why do I think so? Instinct! But I still (...) (23 years ago, 4-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Why? What part is falacious? I presume that you mean to say that God would create humans with equal desires towards sinning. Hence, if it were found that SOME people had MORE desire to sin based on their genetics, that it would prove that God (...) (23 years ago, 4-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Idunno - as I said, that's their problem to wrestle with (I am not a literalist). I'm tempted to say the problem is one of their own making, but I am hardly enough of a Bible scholar to actually say that with any certainty. I don't know of (...) (23 years ago, 4-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: gay by birth vs. gay by choice
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(...) If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is (...) (23 years ago, 4-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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