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(...) No worms, I dig what you're saying here. I think America has an aversion to the word "communism" and is stuck on the Cold War model of an oppressive "big brother", totalitarian state. Let's pretend there was never a Stalin or Mao and address (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rolling Blackouts
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(...) Most of the time, people seem to associate me with the commies, socialists, and/or anarchists(1). Probably because of my involvement in 'punk rock scene'. I don't like to categorize myself with any of them- not because I don't believe in parts (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yes, stay away from pig meat. The Jews and Moslems had the right idea centuries ago. (...) Exactly, why be cruel? (...) God, Zeus, Budda, Shiva... fill in the blank. <snipped some stuff> (...) Well, I find that odd. Why is it morally wrong (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Remember Libertopia isn't a "utopia" so isn't perfect. But ya, that's the idea. The thought is that strict liability with no dodging responsibility behind corporate shells would lead to a better assessment of costs. (...) Which parties are you (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rolling Blackouts
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(...) I don't know... nuclear weapons, rogue asteriods, monsanto corporation, Planet Lunch(tm), the juniorasation of LEGO. ;) (...) you forgot the *more* :) I take the train pretty often. I wish it was cheaper and faster as well. A few years back... (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) there's an interesting project being run by PETA looking at these very issues ( (URL) ). I first looked at the site last year and found it pretty interesting. Probabaly the only thing PETA has ever done that I almost like. (...) Larry, I think (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I agree. My "stupid" comment was meant more to distinguish between cows and, say, dolphins, which I don't want to eat *because* they're too smart. (potentially... sentient!) Cows, Turkeys, Chickens, even Pigs I am fine with. (although I'm a (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rolling Blackouts
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(...) I agree that eating meat is a natural thing and not morally wrong itself. However, I strongly feel that it is morally WRONG to eat the flesh of any animal that was raised in filth and suffering and killed inhumanely. Animals deserve a healthy (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rolling Blackouts
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(...) Indeed. I think our country needs to shift from the old paradigm of "a steak a day" kind of attitude. We overdose on meat! One of the most startling figures is the drastic jump in heart disease cases with the Japanese (who acquired a post war (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: what do you think of editorals regarding the environment?
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(...) And the lifespan of the individual is fleeting in comparison to the lifespan of the genes. I was imprecise in saying "crime," but I was being more metaphorical than litigious. Replace "it's more of a crime" with "the longer-lasting wrong (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: what do you think of editorals regarding the environment?
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(...) We're differing on a definition (as always seems to be the case between us!) If a creature passes down its own genes directly to its offspring, I see that as fundamentally different from allowing the passage of genes in which that creature (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It's only marginally helpful (although I thank you for the datapoint) because I don't feel eating meat (of animals bred to be stupid meat animals) morally wrong in and of itself, and I don't find doing things that are self destructive (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I think there are some points worth making here. (...) Well...I would say that it is due to poor agrarian practices. It is certainly true that most of the US is used to grow feed crops for chicken, pigs and cows, but that in and of itself, (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well...I'm not sure I'd say it that way. Certainly the picture over time is more relevant to the issue of population control, but you originally stated something like "it's more of a crime if you look at it genetically." The criminality of (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) <snip> Thanks for those (pretty scary) factoids! They argue that the true cost of meat is a LOT higher than we are actually paying because the producers are - using subsidised grazing - using subsidized feed - not paying for the pollution they (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I certainly agree with your larger point -- that your ability to reproduce is is more important than your sight to your ability to propogate your genetic line. However, I disagree with your "infinitely greater" comment. When you reproduce, (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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I found a few cool pieces of information that seemed relevant to grazing, beef cattle, etc. These facts also point out the environmental benefits of being vegetarian: - About 85% of topsoil erosion is directly attributable to raising animals for (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Once again, though--since we're speaking of how we might address the population/resource crisis of the present and near future world, I don't think it's inappropriate refer to something that's been within the realm of possibility (ie: (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rolling Blackouts
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(...) We don't know. The true cost of subsidized beef is unknown. The true cost of eating more meat and less vegetables (health costs, economic benefits of people living longer) is unknown. The true cost of overgrazing is unknown. There are too many (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: what do you think of editorals regarding the environment?
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(...) Ah, but if you're going to take the tack of genetics alone, losing your site virtually guarantees that you die quickly and don't pass your genetics on anyways. If you lose repro capability, at least you can help OTHERS survive. Only in the (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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