| |
I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my friend
Sigurd van Starkenberg:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, that
lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
Great job Sigurd!
Kevin
|
|
| |
VERY cool robot.
As computer science student, I'm always interested in new and unusual
robots. Your friend wouldn't have some instructions for building this robot,
would he? Or perhaps a webpage with more information?
- Allan
"Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:IK55Eu.CpK@lugnet.com...
> I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my
> friend
> Sigurd van Starkenberg:
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
>
> It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
>
> The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, that
> lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
>
> Great job Sigurd!
>
> Kevin
|
|
| |
"Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:IK55Eu.CpK@lugnet.com...
> I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my
> friend
> Sigurd van Starkenberg:
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
>
> It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
>
> The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, that
> lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
I hope there is a video of this somewhere. It is awesome construction and
circuitry. I would love to see it in action.
Bob Fay
http://www.ozbricks.com/bobfay/
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Allan Johansen wrote:
> VERY cool robot.
>
>
>
> As computer science student, I'm always interested in new and unusual
> robots. Your friend wouldn't have some instructions for building this robot,
> would he? Or perhaps a webpage with more information?
>
>
>
> - Allan
Hi Allan,
I'm hoping that Sigurd will figure out how to post here. He became interested
in pneumatics about a year ago, after studying my pneumatic creatures on my
page: www.kclague.net.
I don't think either of us have building instructions yet.
If Sigurd has a web page, I have not seen it.
Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:IK55Eu.CpK@lugnet.com...
> > I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my
> > friend
> > Sigurd van Starkenberg:
> >
> > http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
> >
> > It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
> >
> > The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, that
> > lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
> >
> > Great job Sigurd!
> >
> > Kevin
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my friend
> Sigurd van Starkenberg:
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
>
> It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
>
> The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, that
> lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
>
> Great job Sigurd!
>
> Kevin
If theres ever a blueprint of this one I´d like a copy...never tried to build
something like it but might try some day...
How many Pneumatic Cylinders (18+4?) and Switches (52?) were used?
Andréas
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Andréas Rootzén wrote:
> In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> > I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my friend
> > Sigurd van Starkenberg:
> >
> > http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
> >
> > It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
> >
> > The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, that
> > lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
> >
> > Great job Sigurd!
> >
> > Kevin
>
> If theres ever a blueprint of this one I´d like a copy...never tried to build
> something like it but might try some day...
> How many Pneumatic Cylinders (18+4?) and Switches (52?) were used?
>
> Andréas
Hi Andreas,
Given my email exchanges with Sigurd, I believe that the circuit is a
variation of the circuit I designed for my Quad242:
http://www.kclague.net/Quad242
If so, you can find out more about the circuit design here:
http://www.kclague.net/Sequencer
It looks like each leg has three pistons. Each piston has two switches,
giving us:
18 large pistons
36 switches
There are two switches for timing only:
4 small pistons
2 switches
It also looks like four polarity reversors at four switches each.
16 switches
So your estimate is very good.
18 large pistons
4 small pistons
54 switches
Each leg piston has two switches. One switch lets you know when the piston is
expanded, and the other switch lets you know when the piston is contracted.
These switches, hooked together in series, act as AND gates necessary to create
the pneumatic sequence for walking.
Basically the walker has two leg groups that are mirror images of each other.
The left leg group includes the front and back legs on the left side, and the
center leg on the right side.
Sigurd's walker starts with both leg groups down, then lifts one leg group,
swings both leg groups (down group back, up group forward), and then puts the
forward group down. Once all six legs are on the ground, the ciruit lifts the
back legs, leaving the forward legs down, swings the legs (this is the part that
causes forward motion), and then puts them back down. This sequence is
reapeated to cause continued walking motion.
Sigurd's walker can walk backwards, by reversing the swing of both leg groups.
Reversing the swing of the leg groups is implemented using a polarity reversor
to reverse the swap the pressures applied at the piston's ports.
Sigurd's walker can also turn. This is done by reversing the swing direction
for the two center legs. This causes Sigurd's walker to turn one direction. By
combining turn. By combining reverse and turn, Sigurd's walker can turn the
other direction.
Reversing the pistons accounts for two of the four polarity reversors seen
inside the body of his walker. The other two polarity reversors are used to
compensate for the fact that reversing the swing, also reverses the outputs of
the legs (remember those two switches per leg or hip piston hooked together
serially?)
If my struggle to balance terseness with completeness makes this post
incomprehensible (as often is the case), please ask questions.
Kevin
|
|
| |
hi
it's heavy :)
why two legs haven't last segment cylinders connected to the circuit?
pixel
"Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:IK55Eu.CpK@lugnet.com...
> I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my • friend
> Sigurd van Starkenberg:
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
>
> It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
>
> The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, that
> lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
>
> Great job Sigurd!
>
> Kevin
|
|
| |
Hi Pixel,
The walker was built to someday be able to talk in any direction, not just
forwards/backwards. Sigurd, didn't have enough pneumatic hardware to make this
version omni-directional. This left the two side legs elbows disconnected.
I have seen the video and it walks veru agresssively.
Kevin
In lugnet.technic, Paul Kleniewski wrote:
> hi
>
> it's heavy :)
>
> why two legs haven't last segment cylinders connected to the circuit?
>
> pixel
>
>
> "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:IK55Eu.CpK@lugnet.com...
> > I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my friend
> > Sigurd van Starkenberg:
> >
> > http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
> >
> > It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
> >
> > The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, that
> > lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
> >
> > Great job Sigurd!
> >
> > Kevin
|
|
| |
thanx kevin
for the explanation
walker's masterpiece
btw: how about scorpion
is this project still alive
(sorry i'm in my dark ages so i'm not following all topics carefully enough)
in fact i'm a little bit forced to be in DA
some of you maybe remember
2 years ago i posted some photos of new lego fan (my daughter)
so it's absolutely impossible to play with lego before 22:00
pixel
"Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:IKCysA.1oI9@lugnet.com...
> Hi Pixel,
> The walker was built to someday be able to talk in any direction, not • just
> forwards/backwards. Sigurd, didn't have enough pneumatic hardware to make • this
> version omni-directional. This left the two side legs elbows • disconnected.
>
> I have seen the video and it walks veru agresssively.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> In lugnet.technic, Paul Kleniewski wrote:
> > hi
> >
> > it's heavy :)
> >
> > why two legs haven't last segment cylinders connected to the circuit?
> >
> > pixel
> >
> >
> > "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:IK55Eu.CpK@lugnet.com...
> > > I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my • friend
> > > Sigurd van Starkenberg:
> > >
> > > http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
> > >
> > > It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
> > >
> > > The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, • that
> > > lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
> > >
> > > Great job Sigurd!
> > >
> > > Kevin
|
|
| |
I am currently working on a eight legged walker that may end up being
ssclagorpion, but who knows. It is using a new central timing circuit that
should allow it to complete the walking sequence in four piston transitions.
I had been in a DA for quite a while, but got myself restarted using LPub and
LSynth.
I've been building in prep for BF for many weeks.
Kevin
In lugnet.technic, Paul Kleniewski wrote:
>
> thanx kevin
> for the explanation
> walker's masterpiece
>
> btw: how about scorpion
> is this project still alive
> (sorry i'm in my dark ages so i'm not following all topics carefully enough)
> in fact i'm a little bit forced to be in DA
> some of you maybe remember
> 2 years ago i posted some photos of new lego fan (my daughter)
> so it's absolutely impossible to play with lego before 22:00
>
> pixel
>
>
> "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:IKCysA.1oI9@lugnet.com...
> > Hi Pixel,
> > The walker was built to someday be able to talk in any direction, not just
> > forwards/backwards. Sigurd, didn't have enough pneumatic hardware to make this
> > version omni-directional. This left the two side legs elbows disconnected.
> >
> > I have seen the video and it walks veru agresssively.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > In lugnet.technic, Paul Kleniewski wrote:
> > > hi
> > >
> > > it's heavy :)
> > >
> > > why two legs haven't last segment cylinders connected to the circuit?
> > >
> > > pixel
> > >
> > >
> > > "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:IK55Eu.CpK@lugnet.com...
> > > > I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my friend
> > > > Sigurd van Starkenberg:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
> > > >
> > > > It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
> > > >
> > > > The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, that
> > > > lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
> > > >
> > > > Great job Sigurd!
> > > >
> > > > Kevin
|
|
| |
On Fri, July 29, 2005 10:34 am, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> I am currently working on a eight legged walker that may end up being
> ssclagorpion, but who knows. It is using a new central timing circuit that
> should allow it to complete the walking sequence in four piston transitions.
>
> I had been in a DA for quite a while, but got myself restarted using LPub and
> LSynth.
>
> I've been building in prep for BF for many weeks.
Will this new central timing circuit allow you to attach touch sensors, so, if you
wanted, you could track the state of the walker with an RCX?
Just curious. :)
Steve
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> On Fri, July 29, 2005 10:34 am, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> > I am currently working on a eight legged walker that may end up being
> > ssclagorpion, but who knows. It is using a new central timing circuit that
> > should allow it to complete the walking sequence in four piston transitions.
> >
> > I had been in a DA for quite a while, but got myself restarted using LPub and
> > LSynth.
> >
> > I've been building in prep for BF for many weeks.
>
> Will this new central timing circuit allow you to attach touch sensors, so, if you
> wanted, you could track the state of the walker with an RCX?
Yes, it should be just as doable as it would be with the quad-242 circuit.
You could either use four switches to examine the timing circuit, or two
switches to examine a leg.
>
> Just curious. :)
;^)
>
> Steve
Kevin
|
|
| |
hi kevin and steve
it should be the first moc
where the rcx would be let's say a slave to pneumatic circuit
am i right guys
:D
pixel
"Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:IKEEqD.A0B@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.technic, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> > On Fri, July 29, 2005 10:34 am, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> > > I am currently working on a eight legged walker that may end up being
> > > ssclagorpion, but who knows. It is using a new central timing circuit • that
> > > should allow it to complete the walking sequence in four piston • transitions.
> > >
> > > I had been in a DA for quite a while, but got myself restarted using • LPub and
> > > LSynth.
> > >
> > > I've been building in prep for BF for many weeks.
> >
> > Will this new central timing circuit allow you to attach touch sensors, • so, if you
> > wanted, you could track the state of the walker with an RCX?
>
> Yes, it should be just as doable as it would be with the quad-242 circuit.
>
> You could either use four switches to examine the timing circuit, or two
> switches to examine a leg.
>
> >
> > Just curious. :)
>
> ;^)
>
> >
> > Steve
>
> Kevin
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Paul Kleniewski wrote:
| |
hi kevin and steve
it should be the first moc
where the rcx would be let’s say a slave to pneumatic circuit
am i right guys
:D
|
Sounds like an ideal application for an RCX input multiplexer:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1092526
You can then have 12 switches on your RCX to measure two positions on each of 6
legs. Using the thermometer setting on the ports, each combination of switches
is dstinguishable as a different raw sensor value with a margin of at least 5
counts, with 16 possible values per port. You could then plot the leg movement
on a graph!
Mark
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> On Fri, July 29, 2005 10:34 am, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> > I am currently working on a eight legged walker that may end up being
> > ssclagorpion, but who knows. It is using a new central timing circuit that
> > should allow it to complete the walking sequence in four piston transitions.
> >
> > I had been in a DA for quite a while, but got myself restarted using LPub and
> > LSynth.
> >
> > I've been building in prep for BF for many weeks.
>
> Will this new central timing circuit allow you to attach touch sensors, so, if you
> wanted, you could track the state of the walker with an RCX?
>
> Just curious. :)
Will this be needed if we always have at least four feet locked into weight
bearing state at a time? I've incorporated your folding/locking table leg into
this walker.
You will want touch sensors to avoid falling off the table though I guess.
>
> Steve
Kevin
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Mark Bellis wrote:
| |
In lugnet.technic, Paul Kleniewski wrote:
| |
hi kevin and steve
it should be the first moc
where the rcx would be let’s say a slave to pneumatic circuit
am i right guys
:D
|
Sounds like an ideal application for an RCX input multiplexer:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1092526
You can then have 12 switches on your RCX to measure two positions on each of
6 legs. Using the thermometer setting on the ports, each combination of
switches is dstinguishable as a different raw sensor value with a margin of
at least 5 counts, with 16 possible values per port. You could then plot the
leg movement on a graph!
|
This is very much like input multiplexor I created when inventing my first
pneumatic adding machine. The muxing was needed to create my 16 key keyboard.
http://kclague.net/pneumaddic/index.htm
You can see the resistor ladder network stack to the right of the keyboard.
Also you can see more details, including my potentiometer bricks, in this
brickshelf folder.
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=38104
Kevin
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Paul Kleniewski wrote:
> hi kevin and steve
>
> it should be the first moc
> where the rcx would be let's say a slave to pneumatic circuit
> am i right guys
LOL!
Well, in fact, when SSClagorpion is further along, the RCX will control two
pneumatic multiplexors that control forward/reverse and turning/walking. With
this new circuit the changes from turning/not turning, and forward reverse
should be able to be changed at any point in the walking cycle.
Bottom line is that the RCX will be reserved for "higher level" thinking like
"let's not fall off the table", or "my IRPD logic says I'm going to walk into a
wall, I'd better change direction".
I liken the pneumatic walking mechanism without an RCX to a chicken with its
head cut off. It can and does run around and maintain balance, but has no idea
where it is going.....
No chickens have been harmed in the making of this octopod. :^)
Kevin
>
> :D
>
> pixel
> "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:IKEEqD.A0B@lugnet.com...
> > In lugnet.technic, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> > > On Fri, July 29, 2005 10:34 am, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> > > > I am currently working on a eight legged walker that may end up being
> > > > ssclagorpion, but who knows. It is using a new central timing circuit that
> > > > should allow it to complete the walking sequence in four piston transitions.
> > > >
> > > > I had been in a DA for quite a while, but got myself restarted using LPub and
> > > > LSynth.
> > > >
> > > > I've been building in prep for BF for many weeks.
> > >
> > > Will this new central timing circuit allow you to attach touch sensors, so, if you
> > > wanted, you could track the state of the walker with an RCX?
> >
> > Yes, it should be just as doable as it would be with the quad-242 circuit.
> >
> > You could either use four switches to examine the timing circuit, or two
> > switches to examine a leg.
> >
> > >
> > > Just curious. :)
> >
> > ;^)
> >
> > >
> > > Steve
> >
> > Kevin
|
|
| |
On Sun, July 31, 2005 9:56 am, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> > Will this new central timing circuit allow you to attach touch sensors, so, if you
> > wanted, you could track the state of the walker with an RCX?
>
> Will this be needed if we always have at least four feet locked into weight
> bearing state at a time? I've incorporated your folding/locking table leg into
> this walker.
Will it be necessary to switch anything at a specific time?
For example, if SSC is walking forward, and it takes 3/4 of a step, then levers are
flipped to make it turn (which would be reversing the legs on one side), to complete
the "current" step, one set of legs must go 1/4 forward, while the other side must
go 3/4 of a step backward.
Is that OK with your current logic?
If these things are OK, the only thing that may still be good to know is when all
legs are down. That way it would look better when it stops walking. (stand still
with all legs down)
Steve
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> On Sun, July 31, 2005 9:56 am, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> > > Will this new central timing circuit allow you to attach touch sensors, so, if you
> > > wanted, you could track the state of the walker with an RCX?
> >
> > Will this be needed if we always have at least four feet locked into weight
> > bearing state at a time? I've incorporated your folding/locking table leg into
> > this walker.
>
> Will it be necessary to switch anything at a specific time?
No. The central timer is unchanged by switching from forward to reverse, or
walk to turn.
The things that do change behavior are the leg sweep pistons. These will do
their best to accommidate the change, which may not have any affect until the
feet are lifted.
>
> For example, if SSC is walking forward, and it takes 3/4 of a step, then levers are
> flipped to make it turn (which would be reversing the legs on one side), to complete
> the "current" step, one set of legs must go 1/4 forward, while the other side must
> go 3/4 of a step backward.
>
> Is that OK with your current logic?
Yes. It is fine. The muscle pistons are all that are affected, and they are
not instrumented with switches.
>
> If these things are OK, the only thing that may still be good to know is when all
> legs are down. That way it would look better when it stops walking. (stand still
> with all legs down)
Well, that is an artistic/stylistic point of view.
I think that for long term rest state it is less stress on the LEGO if all feet
are down, but I don't know that I agree that it will look better ;^)
>
> Steve
I have all the leg lifting working, and the leg sweeping pistons are in place.
My implementation of leg sweep timing is wrong, but that should be easy to
diagnose.
Right now, it requires very high pressure to make the timing circuit go, because
I have 5 swtiches per large piston. I may try to make the ratio more like 5
switches for 2 pistons..... this should reduce the processure needed quite a
bit.
At these pressures, expanding pistons do better than contracting pistons,
because the cylinder face used for expansion has more area than the cylider face
of contraction (hint: force = pressure times area).
Kevin
|
|
| |
On Mon, August 1, 2005 11:20 am, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> In lugnet.technic, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> > If these things are OK, the only thing that may still be good to know is when all
> > legs are down. That way it would look better when it stops walking. (stand still
> > with all legs down)
>
> Well, that is an artistic/stylistic point of view.
>
> I think that for long term rest state it is less stress on the LEGO if all feet
> are down, but I don't know that I agree that it will look better ;^)
I should say it would look more 'natural'.
How easy will it be to install a normally closed (while the foot is in the air)
touch sensor in the foot?
Will the feet be required to do much rotating and/or sliding while taking a step?
(I assume it will be required, at least a little)
Steve
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> On Mon, August 1, 2005 11:20 am, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> > In lugnet.technic, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> > > If these things are OK, the only thing that may still be good to know is when all
> > > legs are down. That way it would look better when it stops walking. (stand still
> > > with all legs down)
> >
> > Well, that is an artistic/stylistic point of view.
> >
> > I think that for long term rest state it is less stress on the LEGO if all feet
> > are down, but I don't know that I agree that it will look better ;^)
>
> I should say it would look more 'natural'.
>
> How easy will it be to install a normally closed (while the foot is in the air)
> touch sensor in the foot?
Given that I have not designed the feet yet, I don't know.
>
> Will the feet be required to do much rotating and/or sliding while taking a step?
> (I assume it will be required, at least a little)
I have not finished the feet, but I was planning on providing an ankle that
rotates about the Y axis, so that foot rotation is limited. A certain amount of
sliding is expected.
>
> Steve
For now, I just want to get RCX-less octopod going for brickfest.
Kevin
|
|
| |
On Mon, August 1, 2005 4:00 pm, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> Given that I have not designed the feet yet, I don't know.
>
> For now, I just want to get RCX-less octopod going for brickfest.
Your walking stuff is always very popular, as it is.
Don't worry, I'm not pushing for anything. I already have about five other projects
that need to be completed in the next ELEVEN days...
Steve
|
|
| |
> Hi Allan,
> I'm hoping that Sigurd will figure out how to post here. He became interested
> in pneumatics about a year ago, after studying my pneumatic creatures on my
> page: www.kclague.net.
finaly i figure out how to post here :) just got a mail says they are redy to
accept my post's
> I don't think either of us have building instructions yet.
check my brickshelf galery in the aa map..... hopes that helps
>
> Kevin
sigurd
|
|
| |
> > I don't know if any of you saw this fabulous pneumatic hexapod, but my
> > friend
> > Sigurd van Starkenberg:
> >
> > http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=137658
> >
> > It walks forward, backward and turns right and left.
> >
> > The thing that makes this superior to prior work is an elbow mid arm, that
> > lengthens for walking, and shortens for turns!
>
> I hope there is a video of this somewhere. It is awesome construction and
> circuitry. I would love to see it in action.
i've tried to make a movie public on brickshelf but unfortunately it don't work,
if you want to see it in action just send my a e-mail
>
> Bob Fay
> http://www.ozbricks.com/bobfay/
sigurd
|
|
| |
In lugnet.technic, Sigurd van Strakenburg wrote:
>
> i've tried to make a movie public on brickshelf but unfortunately it don't work,
> if you want to see it in action just send my a e-mail
Hi Sigurd,
According to Brickshelf: "Multimedia files are now available between 8pm and
10am EDT" so don't give up on it!
ROSCO
|
|
|
