LEGO TECHNIC : 12359


Technic / 12359

The Clague - Sophie - Hassenplug Combine —Eric Sophie

Re: The Clague - Sophie Project, has now become, The Clague - Sophie - Hassenplug Combine Get out your Pen and Paper kiddies, this is gonna be good. Gents, here is what I propose. I've been sorting my White and Dark Grey. I'm itching to make a (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic, lugnet.robotics)

Re: The Clague - Sophie - Hassenplug Combine —Chris Masclet

(...) Hi Eric Best American builders, no parts quantity limit.... It seems I cannot fight !! ;-) Chris. (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

SSCorpion —Kevin L. Clague

This will be interesting because it is my first partner build..... and I know of no pattern to follow. We each have our own approaches and I'm not sure how similar they are. I figured we might as well do the designing process here on LUGNET, rather (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSCorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) -snip- This is facinating, I am preparing a more in depth response at this moment. e (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSCorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) I assume you're not counting the Team Magno fiasco. I guess there really wasn't much building involved there. :) (...) ... (...) ... (...) Will this type of design allow it to turn in place, or can it only turn while walking forward/backward? (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSCorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) With four polarity reversors (16 pneumo switches), we can make it walk forward, backward, turn right or left. If we used more polarity reversors we could make one side walk forward, while the other side turns, leading to a curved walking path. (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Ok, so I'm thinking about motors to flip pneumo-switches. Each of these may be one or more switches, all activated at the same time. 1) Switch for Start/Stop (on/off) When this switch is "on" the scorpion will be walking. (legs going up/down + (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Yes. (...) No. (...) No (...) No. Ignoring side walking for a moment..... 1) One motor to turn a single switch on/off. This allows or prevents walking. 2) One motor to flip 8 switches. This one controls walking vs. turning. 3) One motor to (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) That was my second choice. Ok, three motors. If it can be worked out, we COULD combine #1 and #3, right? Leaving: 1) Function (walk/turn) 2) Direction (forward/backward/stop) I assume both of these groups are controlled only by motors, and at (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Nope, but we could just eliminate #1 by just turning of the compressors. (...) It is still on the list, I was just leaving it out of the equation for a moment. (...) Yes, slow, more pressure, or more force. Shall I assume four pistons per leg? (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) That's up to you. I'd like to see it move as fast as possible, but I think even if we make it as small as possible, it's going to weigh at least 10 pounds. 3 or 4 pounds will be the RCXs, battey box, Spybot, and motors. So, what will it take (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Hmmmm.... interesting question. I don't know much pneumatic theory, but..... Pressure is in pounds per square inch. So if we know the area of the face of a piston, and we know the pressure we can determine how many pounds a single piston can (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Mark Riley was nice enought to point out the errors in my math. The area of the piston care is pi * r^2 = 0.2 Four times that is 0.8. So the minimal pressure needed is 10 pounds / 0.8 square inches or, 12.5 pounds per square inch. Still well (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) ... (...) With twice the pistons, the pressure is not as great, but the volume of air would be doubled, right? Using logic, not physics, I think once the pressure is built up (to 13 psi) the compressor may have to do less work to keep it (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) <snip> (...) Well, I know of situations where LEGO has asked some people to recreate their MOCs for them. You know you have arrived if that happens. (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Mark Bellis

(...) A few things spring to mind about this: 1. I usually run robots from a car tyre air compressor at 25PSI. This gives good performance with 1-2 large cylinders moving at a time. Using 6 large pump cylinders as the air source, performance is half (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) That makes sense, but you may want to take a look at the video of Kevin's walkers: (URL) you see, at the end of each stride, all four legs are at the bottom of their travel. So while it is true that half the legs will have to support all the (...) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Funny! My presentation at Brickest (classic?) was named Pneumatic Magic. When I started on quad242 I thought the cool thing was going to be the ability to make it modify its behavior to go backwards and turn, but the hardest part was the "no (...) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Mark Bellis

(...) I can see the good sense in putting the hip switches on their own sets of levers, as your pics show. That way, the force required for them and for the legs is independent, so there's no extra load on the switches. I am used to mounting the (...) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Ok, so what's required for walking sideways? One switch (= single set of switches, all activated at once) to switch from forward/back/turn to side-to-side? I'm sure that comes to about 16 reverser switches, or something. :) I just happened to (...) (20 years ago, 19-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) It is my belief that sideways walking will require a third degree of articulation in the leg/hip structure. It will cause the legs to swing towards and away from the body. By replacing the forward/backward part of the leg sweep with the side (...) (20 years ago, 19-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Ok, we [plan to] have a sensor on the front foot, and can detect when that is down. So, no more sensors are required. So you said, the forward/backward must be changed while the feet are in the air. We've been thinking of having a touch sensor (...) (20 years ago, 19-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Actualy we need to sense when it is *up*. (...) As soon as you figure out that a foot is up, you can reverse directions. I'll have to study the state sequence, because there are two non-weight bearing pistons that control the feet, so it might (...) (20 years ago, 19-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Is *up* the same as "not down"? I was thinking it was, but that may not be the case. (...) This sounds like we can NOT do the table edge detection stuff, using it's feet. Imagine you're crawling around on your hands and knees, with your eyes (...) (20 years ago, 19-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) I think that you are right, that they are the same thing. (...) Hmmm.... We would need to know two things to determine we'd hit the edge of the table. 1. The foot is down as far as it will go. 2. The down foot is not touching anything. We (...) (20 years ago, 20-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Right. That's listed somewhere in my prior ramblings. It should work fine with 2 inputs (one for each foot) (...) ... (...) We may need to figure something out, here. I think it WILL be a problem. At any given time, he will (could) have only (...) (20 years ago, 20-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) OK. You are going to put two touch sensors on one port? I thought you needed to know that the leg is fully extended, but not touching. How will you do that with one sensor port? (...) You are right, he needs to balance on the three feet that (...) (20 years ago, 20-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Brian Davis

(...) I can think of two was: use two touch sensors, and be able to read the state of both of them (you can do this with a 3rd party multiplex, or cybermaster sensors (which are kinda rare... right, Steve?), or use touch sensors stacked with (...) (20 years ago, 20-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Again, the main goal is to know when the leg is extended, and the foot isn't touching the ground. So, you can mount the foot sensor so it's normally closed (pressed) except when the foot is on the ground and mount the leg sensor so it is (...) (20 years ago, 20-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) There are a couple ways that come to mind. If you don't want to know the details, skip ahead... We want to know when the leg is extended, and the foot is not touching the ground. There will be four possible states: 1) Leg up, foot not touching (...) (20 years ago, 20-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

In lugnet.technic, Steve Hassenplug wrote: <snip> (...) Nope. The sequence is: 1. All feet down. 2. Lift one foot group 3. Sweep legs 4. put feet down 5. Lift other foot group 6. Sweep legs So it does not need to walk forward to lift the feet. (...) (...) (20 years ago, 20-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: <snip> (...) Oops: B expand = ~C & ~D & E & F (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) I keep thinking about a rotary type walker, where the feet more or less go in a circle and the body is always moving forward. Please forgive me. :) So, when it lifts one leg group, and someone switches it into reverse, will it put those legs (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Nope. It will force the legs to the correct position for walking backwards, and then drop the feet. Kevin (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) I could be wrong (missing something) but I think if the switch is flipped immediatly after they raise up, then the legs are in the correct position. If you're walking forward, and switch to reverse right as your foot comes off the ground, you (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Probably not. Kevin (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) I'm back I'm back. What can I do? I want to build something. I'm gonna make a concept moc moc up. Pun intended. e (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Benton Jackson

(...) MOC-up! I love it! (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) Ahem, (...) So we can incorporate the tail's funtionality and weight to help aid the robot by swinging or uncurling the tail so it faces away from the body and is extended back. This shifts the center of gravity away from the front of the (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) Ahh now we are getting somewhere. (...) Hmmm, indeed, or perhaps if we monitor the time it takes for a Leg to hit the ground and then install a logic command that will take action if the leg does not hit the ground in a predetermined amount of (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Detecting the table edge is not the problem. We can do that with a sensor in the hip/leg in addition to one in the foot. Then, when the leg is extended, and the foot is not touching, there is an error. The problem (as I see it) is that it must (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion - robotic update —Steve Hassenplug

The latest robotic update: As it stands now, SSClagorpion will: 1) Move: (one of these at a time) A) Walk forward & backward, B) Turn right & left C) Step right & left (move sideways) D) Stop 2) Open & close two claws on it's arms (via pneumatics) (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) Hey that is interesting. How would the robot actually behave in this circumstance? We'll have to build it and teach it and build as necc. e (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) -snip- Good Read. (...) Question please. The Spybot. That's for Directional Control. Can you eloborate? I find this interesting. I have conceived of possible contrivences, I'm interested in dicussing a method. What would the Spybot's two (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Ok, so first of all, the Spybots, although limited, have one VERY cool feature. It's their IR capability. They have three IR sensors, so they can detect the direction of an IR signal from a controller, and/or another Spybot. So, if you set a (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) Oh! That's cool, I get it. (...) Right! Right! I get it, that answers the questions. I see. So the Spybots (oh course doi!) wouldn't be in the claws. The motors of the Spybot (located in the head or body or where ever) could trigger the Claw's (...) (20 years ago, 21-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) This is a reality given large LEGO pneumatic pistons, but I knew this when I started this project by inviting Eric to join me. (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Thinking about this more....... One of the reasons that makes this slow is the inherent piston friction which combined with pressure defines the rate of expansion and contraction. So the rate is not very negotiable. But using rate * time = (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: <snip> (...) So using #1 axle connectors as the linkage, we get a reduced piston expansion, down to 86% of maximum. Using technic axle joiner perpendicular, we can reduce the range to 70% of maximum. I can't (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Yes, I'd rather see a solid, strong, slow robot over a fast robot that succeeds in tearing itself apart. :) (...) That's the throw of the switches, right? Not the throw of the cylinders on the legs. So the legs will "move" at the same speed, (...) (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Well Steve, it might and it might not. Given 18 bits of state (two bits/pistons per leg plus two extra), we could have a total of 256K possible combinations of leg positions. We only want about about 10 of them. If we start out the pistons in (...) (20 years ago, 16-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSCorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) I built nothing there, I just programmed. For me these two experiences are *very* different. Kevin (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSCorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) Steve, I think its cool too because you have experience at obtaining objectives like with the Robotics Challanges you have participated in. As well as you own work. (...) A nice quad pivot pattern with opposesing sweep movements alternating to (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)

Re: SSCorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Yes. Right now, I think we're still brainstorming, so we need to come up with all the cool ideas about what we want to do, then we can figure out what is feasable, and what we want to skip. (...) Yes. Start with super badass, and trim from (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)

Re: SSCorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) This is my first Co-build as well. But not my first multi-person project. I have also witness first hand the success you both have had in working with others and in your own projects. I'm interested in unlocking my potential. I'm interested in (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSCorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) synergy. cool. :) (...) I hadn't really thougth about standing up on it's hind legs. I don't know how well it will work, but what if it were to sit down (front legs straight, back legs fully retracted) then, start straightning legs from the (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSCorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Actually we want it to stand on its front legs. This brings the tail forward. Scorpions sting forward with their tails, so we need to lower the front end and raise the backend, plus curl the tail forward more than normal. (...) If we add a (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSCorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) We could make this eaily with a Technic Turntables. Depends on how you will create the legs. It will be your decision. (...) Uggg, I don't have that many! :( I know I'm talking like I have got it all, but I still gotta give Rob Limbaugh some. (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSCorpion —Brian Davis

(...) Well, since nobody has objected, let me just say up front... PLEASE keep it on-line. I agree with Steve, this is fun (and that's just as a spectator). With regards to Steves question about "decoupling" the left and right sides, Kevin, could (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Kevin L. Clague

(...) Hi Brian, I figured there would be plenty of lurkers and non-so lurkers on this topic. One of our goals is to have the scorpion turn in place. Hex242 could do this, and it will be easy to make SSClagorpion (Eric's choice for name) do this as (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Benton Jackson

Are you planning to publish building instructions and/or an ldraw version? Hmm, over 2 dozen cylinders.... Backhoes are on special... Mebbe I'd better get 3. (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Eric Sophie

(...) All we know is that it is part of our goal to share the experience. It is also tradition for all 3 of us to publish our work in one way or another. We look forward to seeing what becomes of it. (...) Can we borrow your Lego Benton? Please? ;) (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Benton Jackson

(...) What, and TAKE APART my backhoe? :P (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Eric Sophie

(...) I'll have Tim Courtney buy you one, nay, two Pints at Brick Fest. How's that? e (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Benton Jackson

(...) You're being quite friendly to someone who's usually just a lurker on lugnet. Are you mistaking me for the other Ben Jackson, who might have actually been to LugNet before? (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Eric Sophie

(...) -snip- (...) ahh, Tim will buy you one too. e (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Benton Jackson

(...) That would probably convince me, if I knew who Tim was, and if I ever went to BrickFest. I'm not that dedicated an AFOL I guess. (20 years ago, 15-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Eric Sophie

(...) Yes, that's it! Kevin, Like you said, create the bestest strongest 2 or three degree of movment prototype leg. Perfect it. We'll determine what parts you need to build all the legs. As you work on the sequence routing and structures beyond the (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Kevin L. Clague

In lugnet.technic, Eric Sophie wrote: <snip> (...) I assumed that this third degree of freedom would me motorized. Kevin (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpian —Eric Sophie

(...) Oh excellent, then do you feel comfortable...or rather can you create everything from the Technic Turntables down? Just give me something to grab from off of the Legs to begin connections to the Turntables. Or you do it, or we could make a (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) I just made up a web page, so I have a place to put MY notes and thoughts. (URL) expect much there, yet, we're still pretty early in the project. Feel free to bookmark the page. It's not going away anytime soon. Now would be a good time for (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Kevin L. Clague

(...) I like SCorPeon..... It has a nice ring to it. (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Steve Hassenplug

(...) Unfortunately, whenever I see SSClagorpion I think of a boat. Maybe, we should give Eric the E and call it SCorp-Eon. :) Or, it could be SCHorpion. (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: SSClagorpion —Eric Sophie

(...) Gents, I am going to upstate NY to prepare for an art show I have this weekend. I will be out of the loop for a few days. I look forward to picking this up when I return. e (URL) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: The Clague - Sophie - Hassenplug Combine —Eric Sophie

(...) We will have a toast to you! Perhaps we can consider the Hand design you developed for LEGOTIC! It is now Kevin's pride! What to do! btw, you have made some interesting electronics. When the time comes feel free to advise. e (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: The Clague - Sophie - Hassenplug Combine —Tommy Rainwater

(...) Holy $%#*!!! This has instantly become one of the coolest Lego ideas I've seen in recent memory! What a collaboration! A thread I'll be watching like a hawk. With the talent of you three guys, makes me wonder where it will go!!!? After (...) (20 years ago, 13-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)

Re: The Clague - Sophie - Hassenplug Combine —Eric Sophie

(...) Thank you. Each of us I think knows the power of the building system. I think we know it can happen. It is worthy. Consistant with our interests. (...) I don't know let's find out! (URL) oh Jama will take a petite size 2 please. (...) We will (...) (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)

Re: The Clague - Sophie - Hassenplug Combine —Andrew Saada

(...) OKAY, I have not read this thread from the beginning but from the topic snippets I have to say this is toooo cool! I too will be avidly watching this manifestation. Oh, and HELLO e! Long time, no see! -Andrew (20 years ago, 14-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)