 | | | | | |
In lugnet.general, Rob Hendrix wrote:
| |
ALE is Adult Lego Enthusiast, a newer (and preferred by at least some) term
over
AFOL.
|
Renaming be damned! I like old-school, old-time. (Eddie Shore!)
Signed,
An AFOL who builds MOCs who also may be a Curmudgeon,
JOHN
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.general, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.general, Rob Hendrix wrote:
| |
ALE is Adult Lego Enthusiast, a newer (and preferred by at least some) term
over
AFOL.
|
Renaming be damned! I like old-school, old-time.
|
To purists, I barely qualify as an “AFOL,” but even I agree that that term
is preferable to “ALE.” AFOL has history behind it, and its creation was
organic, rather than deliberate, and it therefore has greater aesthetic appeal
to me on those grounds alone.
I don’t care if either is “easier” to pronounce--no one I know “pronounces”
ETA, RSVP, or USA. “AFOL” is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
“enthusiast” is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish. Heck, if
we really want to sound self-important, why don’t we just call ourselves
“Brights?”
| |
An AFOL who builds MOCs who also may be a Curmudgeon,
|
That’s “An AFOLWBMWAMBAC,” to you.
Dave!
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
To purists, I barely qualify as an “AFOL,” but even I agree that that
term is preferable to “ALE.” AFOL has history behind it, and its creation
was organic, rather than deliberate, and it therefore has greater aesthetic
appeal to me on those grounds alone.
|
So, you like it better because there was little thought behind it? Next you’ll
be saying you voted for Bush. :)
| |
I don’t care if either is “easier” to pronounce--no one I know “pronounces”
ETA, RSVP, or USA. “AFOL” is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
|
Some people spell it out, but even that isn’t very euphonic -- unlike the other
initialisms you mention, AFOL when spelled quickly sounds more like a word
(ayafoal) than a string of letters.
But the real problem isn’t when speaking to other ALEs (or whatever you choose
to call them), but when speaking to people who aren’t into LEGO. I’ve tried
this on a number of occasions since coming out of my dark ages: “I’m an adult
fan of LEGO...” The result is almost always a “you’re joking, right?” sort of
grin, because it sounds so ridiculously pompous. It’s like saying “I’m a
drinker of wines.” It’s stilted and sounds silly. When have you ever heard a
train enthusiast describe themselves as an “adult fan of trains”?
So, from now on, I’ll be introducing my passion this way: “I’m an adult LEGO
enthusiast” -- “LEGO enthusiast” just like “train enthusiast,” plus “adult”
since (unlike the train hobby) LEGO is still seen by most people as a toy for
children. Adding “adult” defines adult LEGO enthusiasts as a group, implying
that there are others, and that the speaker isn’t just having maturity issues.
| |
IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
“enthusiast” is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish.
|
Nonsense; it’s a standard term -- there are train enthusiasts, wine enthusiasts,
music enthusiasts and so on. If you want effete and snobbish, use “afficionado”
instead. (And if you want crass, use “buff” -- enthusiast is comfortably in the
middle.)
Laugh all you want, but I think this is a small but important part of getting
the society we live in to accept and understand the LEGO hobby.
Best,
- Joe
P.S. Is this really off-topic?
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Joe Strout wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
To purists, I barely qualify as an “AFOL,” but even I agree that that
term is preferable to “ALE.” AFOL has history behind it, and its creation
was organic, rather than deliberate, and it therefore has greater aesthetic
appeal to me on those grounds alone.
|
So, you like it better because there was little thought behind it? Next
you’ll be saying you voted for Bush. :)
| |
I don’t care if either is “easier” to pronounce--no one I know “pronounces”
ETA, RSVP, or USA. “AFOL” is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
|
Some people spell it out, but even that isn’t very euphonic -- unlike the
other initialisms you mention, AFOL when spelled quickly sounds more like a
word (ayafoal) than a string of letters.
But the real problem isn’t when speaking to other ALEs (or whatever you
choose to call them), but when speaking to people who aren’t into LEGO.
I’ve tried this on a number of occasions since coming out of my dark ages:
“I’m an adult fan of LEGO...” The result is almost always a “you’re joking,
right?” sort of grin, because it sounds so ridiculously pompous.
|
Ahem, Joe, but they were mocking your hobby choice, not your title! :-)
| |
It’s like
saying “I’m a drinker of wines.”
|
I’ve always preferred “lush”, but “wine taster” isn’t much better.
| |
It’s stilted and sounds silly. When have
you ever heard a train enthusiast describe themselves as an “adult fan of
trains”?
So, from now on, I’ll be introducing my passion this way: “I’m an adult LEGO
enthusiast” -- “LEGO enthusiast” just like “train enthusiast,” plus “adult”
since (unlike the train hobby) LEGO is still seen by most people as a toy for
children. Adding “adult” defines adult LEGO enthusiasts as a group, implying
that there are others, and that the speaker isn’t just having maturity
issues.
|
Don’t be surprised if they still laugh:-)
| |
| |
IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
“enthusiast” is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish.
|
Nonsense; it’s a standard term -- there are train enthusiasts, wine
enthusiasts, music enthusiasts and so on. If you want effete and snobbish,
use “afficionado” instead. (And if you want crass, use “buff” -- enthusiast
is comfortably in the middle.)
Laugh all you want, but I think this is a small but important part of getting
the society we live in to accept and understand the LEGO hobby.
|
Joe, terms like “AFOL” are “in-house”, part of our jargon, and not intended for
the unwashed GP. The fact is that the GP won’t accept you whatever acro you
decide to call yourself-- you will be shunned, and you will only find solice
back here with us.
We are geeks, pathetically playing with toys, and we must learn to accept it,
and not try to pander to the unenlightened. We are the Neoilluminati!
| |
P.S. Is this really off-topic?
|
Yes and no;-)
JOHN
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Joe Strout wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
To purists, I barely qualify as an “AFOL,” but even I agree that that
term is preferable to “ALE.” AFOL has history behind it, and its creation
was organic, rather than deliberate, and it therefore has greater aesthetic
appeal to me on those grounds alone.
|
So, you like it better because there was little thought behind it? Next
you’ll be saying you voted for Bush. :)
|
Holy moley, them’s fightin’ words!
| |
| |
I don’t care if either is “easier” to pronounce--no one I know “pronounces”
ETA, RSVP, or USA. “AFOL” is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
|
Some people spell it out, but even that isn’t very euphonic -- unlike the
other initialisms you mention, AFOL when spelled quickly sounds more like a
word (ayafoal) than a string of letters.
|
I don’t know. I can think of all kinds of abbreviations that don’t snuggle into
the ear all that pleasantly. The Society for Creative Anachronisms (The SCA,
which sounds like ESS-YAY) is one such example. Participants in that group
are called “SCAdians,” though.
| |
But the real problem isn’t when speaking to other ALEs (or whatever you
choose to call them), but when speaking to people who aren’t into LEGO.
I’ve tried this on a number of occasions since coming out of my dark ages:
“I’m an adult fan of LEGO...” The result is almost always a “you’re joking,
right?” sort of grin, because it sounds so ridiculously pompous. It’s like
saying “I’m a drinker of wines.” It’s stilted and sounds silly. When have
you ever heard a train enthusiast describe themselves as an “adult fan of
trains”?
|
To be honest, I’ve never heard anyone describe himself as an enthusiast of any
hobby. Even if he did, he wouldn’t say “I’m an adult train enthusiast,” because
that sounds like he’s only into burlesque trains (which he may be, but that’s
beside the point...)
If you’re really invested in the term, I’d suggest dropping “Adult” from the
acronym because it serves no purpose other than compartmentalization. If you’re
speaking to non-LEGO savvy listeners, chances are good that they’ll recognize
you as an adult, right? And if you’re discussing it in writing, you’d have to
explain the acronym the first time you use it anyway, thusly:
“Hi all, I’m an Adult Lego Enthusiast (ALE), and here’s my story. I’ve been an
ALE for several years, and...”
In euphonic terms, pronouncing the word “ALE” isn’t much better or different
from spelling the abbreviation “LE,” and the latter is (IMO) superior by virtue
of being less arbitrarily subdivided.
| |
So, from now on, I’ll be introducing my passion this way: “I’m an adult LEGO
enthusiast” -- “LEGO enthusiast” just like “train enthusiast,” plus “adult”
since (unlike the train hobby) LEGO is still seen by most people as a toy for
children. Adding “adult” defines adult LEGO enthusiasts as a group, implying
that there are others, and that the speaker isn’t just having maturity
issues.
|
Well, that’s a good explanation, but even insofar as I’ve never heard anyone
self-described as an enthusiast, I’ve never heard any non-adult described as
an “enthusiast” by anyone!
| |
| |
IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
“enthusiast” is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish.
|
Nonsense; it’s a standard term -- there are train enthusiasts, wine
enthusiasts, music enthusiasts and so on. If you want effete and snobbish,
use “afficionado” instead. (And if you want crass, use “buff” -- enthusiast
is comfortably in the middle.)
|
What’s wrong with “Hobbyist” as a term? We all participate in LEGO as a hobby,
right? Do we all participate in LEGO as an enthusiasm? I know, it’s not a 100%
precise comparison, but I think it underscores my point that “enthusiast,”
though certainly part of the lexicon, just sounds tritely artificial to me.
Like referring to a “Bottle Shoppe” for no particular reason.
| |
Laugh all you want, but I think this is a small but important part of getting
the society we live in to accept and understand the LEGO hobby.
|
Jeez, is it as serious as all that? I couldn’t care less if society accepts or
understand my involvement in the hobby. And, judging from the huge response
that LEGO train shows seem to garner, society welcomes “us” as well as it
welcomes any subculture of hobbyists. Even the aforementioned SCA, haven for
ubergeeks of all stripes, attracts a huge crowd whenever it puts on a public
demonstration.
| |
P.S. Is this really off-topic?
|
I wondered the same thing. Curse that scoundrel John Neal and his willy-nilly
FUT-ing!
Dave!
FUT lugnet.general
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Joe Strout wrote:
| |
But the real problem isn’t when speaking to other ALEs (or whatever you
choose to call them), but when speaking to people who aren’t into LEGO.
I’ve tried this on a number of occasions since coming out of my dark ages:
“I’m an adult fan of LEGO...”
|
Huh-- I almost never say “fan of Lego” or “AFOL” to people who aren’t in the
hobby, because it just doesn’t give them a good frame of reference. I think I’ve
always said “Lego Hobbyist” because that’s what people understand.
Usually “fan” is used in reference to things like sports teams, music artists,
actors, etc. Something that denotes “I’m cheering for you” or “I love watching
you do your thing”.
A hobbyist or enthusiast is typically *involved* in an activity, rather than a
spectator. At least, that’s how I’ve come to understand the use of the word in
common speak. So I usually say “hobbyist” because I think it’s a little more
descriptive to the general public of what I do. IE, it’s something I’m involved
with that I’m not doing “professionally”, that I do in my spare time.
Essentially, I think the connatations of “Lego Hobbyist” are much more
meaningful to people OUTSIDE the hobby than “Lego Fan” or “Lego Enthusiast”.
However, INSIDE the hobby is a different story. I think “fan” is something that
caught on just like “Lego Maniac” sorta used to be. It might not be true
(because we’re not ACTUALLY maniacs or anything), but it’s that kind of amusing
slant on ourselves that exaggerates the point. Like saying “I’m just crazy
enough to buy that”. Are you actually saying you’re crazy? Nah. You’re just sort
of having a bit of joking fun at the notion of needing to be crazy. Poking fun
at yourself. In that same way, I think “fan” took off as a descriptor within the
community. Enough so as to become the ‘norm’ for how we describe ourselves.
Within the community, we reference ourselves a lot. Having a name for ourselves
just makes sense-- but the actual name itself means little to me, personally. We
could’ve called ourselves Fibblesnorks (the paleolithic ancestor of Fleebnorks)
for all I care. To me, an “AFOL” isn’t necessarily a “fan”, or even an “adult”.
It’s a person who’s ‘serious’ about the Lego hobby, insofar as they appreciate
more than just the play aspects that children enjoy. A person who enjoys Lego
for its modeling, utilitarian, nostalgic, or collectable value, and who isn’t
likely to abandon it lightly.
Whatever we call ourselves, that’s probably the name I’ll use. For now, I think
“AFOL” is still going to be the accepted norm, but if “ALE” catches on more, I
might start using that. To me, the actual name means little. I’ll likely
understand the name as who we really are as a community, not by the constituent
words or the connotation of whatever it is we call ourselves.
DaveE
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
Hello!
> > I don't care if either is "easier" to pronounce--no one I know "pronounces"
> > [ETA,] [RSVP,] or [USA.] "AFOL" is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
I say "eta" (That's a terror organization in the Spanish Basque region.) or
E-T-A (meaning "estimated time of arrival"), R-S-V-P (what the heck is it?) and
U-S-A. But I say "afol" and "mock" and "burp" because:
> unlike the
> other initialisms you mention, AFOL when spelled quickly sounds more like a
> word (ayafoal) than a string of letters.
Or does anybody say B-U-R-P to a BURP? Or S-N-O-T to SNOT?
> So, from now on, I'll be introducing my passion this way: "I'm an adult LEGO
> enthusiast"
When discribing my hobby to non-LEGO-fans I usually say "I build with LEGO."
Telling them any Acronym wouldn't help them much. And they often see for
themselves that I am an adult.
> > IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
> > "enthusiast" is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish.
That's what I think, too.
Also, in German "enthusiast" is considered a "foreign word" (dunno how the
situation is in English), not everybody is able to spell it correctly, many
people don't know what it means or don't even know the word at all. Words like
this are merely used by advanced users of language (AUOLs).
How I understand it: An enthusiast is somebody who gets always glistering eyes
when speaking about his hobby. - That's truely not the case with me, so I am not
an enthusiast. Therefore "ALE" wouldn't apply to me at all. I am an adult friend
of LEGO (LEGO the bricks, not LEGO the company). That's best aconym-ed in
"AFOL".
Bye
Jojo
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Johannes Koehler wrote:
> Hello!
Hi JoJo!
> I say "eta" (That's a terror organization in the Spanish Basque region.) or
> E-T-A (meaning "estimated time of arrival"), R-S-V-P (what the heck is it?)
Respondez Sil Vous Plait (1) HTH!
++Lar (can we pick one FUT? I think .people but what do I know?)
1 - IIRC(2)... it's French or something for "get back to me whether you are
coming to my party or not because I need to know how much beer to order" or
something...
2 - Which I never say as "irk", I always say Eye Eye Are Cee...
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Hello!
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> Respondez Sil Vous Plait (1) HTH!
Merci beaucoup!
> (can we pick one FUT?)
I posted to .general because I wrote about something LEGO-related. And to
.debate because it was debate-ish.
> 1 - IIRC(2)... it's French or something for "get back to me whether you are
> coming to my party or not because I need to know how much beer to order"
Yeah, thanks, I'm coming to that party! Would you pay for my taxi?
> 2 - Which I never say as "irk", I always say Eye Eye Are Cee...
How do you pronounce "LOL"? Better asked: Does anybody ever pronounce it? Ain't
www-acronyms like that only used in written communication?
Bye
Jojo
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Johannes Koehler wrote:
> Yeah, thanks, I'm coming to that party! Would you pay for my taxi?
Taxi OR beer, whichever's less. I guess... Assuming I have any money left after
BF... Apparently some rumor got started that I'm buying rounds at Rocklands???
Gonna be hard to pull off because Nik'll be with me again this year and I don't
think I can sneak him in the way I did 2 years ago...
Anyway, not gonna happen.
Well maybe I'll buy rounds just for the people that actually like me (and can
prove it... somehow...), that should be a lot cheaper...
> > 2 - Which I never say as "irk", I always say Eye Eye Are Cee...
>
> How do you pronounce "LOL"? Better asked: Does anybody ever pronounce it? Ain't
> www-acronyms like that only used in written communication?
Ya I think so, except in rare circumstances. But the question still comes up,
how do you say it "in your head" when you're reading it, even if you don't voice
it... I actually say LOL "loll" in my head, believe it or not, unlike IIRC...
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> Well maybe I'll buy rounds just for the people that actually like me (and
> can
> prove it... somehow...), that should be a lot cheaper...
Crap, there's always a catch isn't there?
Rob
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Johannes Koehler wrote:
| |
How do you pronounce “LOL”? Better asked: Does anybody ever pronounce it?
Ain’t www-acronyms like that only used in written communication?
|
Ya I think so, except in rare circumstances. But the question still comes up,
how do you say it “in your head” when you’re reading it, even if you don’t
voice it... I actually say LOL “loll” in my head, believe it or not, unlike
IIRC...
|
What a strange person! Acros are to save time typing, neh? So, why wouldn’t
one voice it out “in one’s head”? Whenever I read an acro, I unsuffit.
Unless a person is too important and their time too valuable to take that extra
nanosecond or two to do it? ;-)
JOHN
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Johannes Koehler wrote:
| |
How do you pronounce “LOL”? Better asked: Does anybody ever pronounce it?
Ain’t www-acronyms like that only used in written communication?
|
Ya I think so, except in rare circumstances. But the question still comes
up, how do you say it “in your head” when you’re reading it, even if you
don’t voice it... I actually say LOL “loll” in my head, believe it or not,
unlike IIRC...
|
What a strange person! Acros are to save time typing, neh? So, why
wouldn’t one voice it out “in one’s head”? Whenever I read an acro, I
unsuffit.
|
The voices in my head talk slowly, so that I can understand what they are
saying... apparently yours don’t, and talk so fast that you’re getting garbled
messages?
That certainly would explain a lot!
| |
Unless a person is too important and their time too valuable to take that
extra nanosecond or two to do it? ;-)
|
Yep, that’s me all right...
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> > Unless a person is too important and their time too valuable to take that
> > extra nanosecond or two to do it? ;-)
>
> Yep, that's me all right...
Of all the people who *could* have responded to [JOHN], I knew you would be
the first (if not the only) to chime in and say that. You're becoming too
easy to read. Time to change your modus operandi...
Rob
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
I don’t care if either is “easier” to pronounce--no one I know “pronounces”
ETA, RSVP, or USA. “AFOL” is an abbreviation, not an acronym.
|
I’ve often had to descibe myself and what I do in my class to school
administrators, and I always use “Adult LEGO Fan”, which I suppose would be ALF
- but I know you guys don’t wanna be ALFs! Usually when I describe the community
(especially the LDraw community) to others in the CAD field I use the term
“Crazy LEGO People.” This seems to go over well with non-ALFs. :)
I don’t really understand why people don’t want to consider themselves “fans” or
“fanatics” - if you look up the definition of the word “fanatic” I think it
applies to a lot of us, me included. Maybe because it has a sports connotation
and many here aren’t into sports? Whatever.. ALE has other (far stronger)
connotations that I think detract from what the abbreviation is supposed to be
about. I think AFOL just one of those things that’s here to stay.
BTW, LUG is also used by the Autodesk CAD Community for “Local User Group” - I
haven’t bothered to correct them yet..
Darrell
ALF or, I suppose,
(Nut Brown) ALE.
mmmm... Newcastle!
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
(snip)
| |
IMO (also an abbreviation rather than an acronym!), to call oneself an
“enthusiast” is to make oneself sound hopelessly effete and snobbish. Heck,
if we really want to sound self-important, why don’t we just call ourselves
“Brights?”
|
(snip)
Whenever I read “IMO” I pronounce it in my noggin as “ih-my-oh” all fluidlike,
one word. Ihmyoh. The “ih” is like the beginning of “idiot”, the “my” is just
like the word, and the “oh” is like the beginning of “ohio”
IMHO is “ih-my-ho”, FYI ( <-- but that is just said letter by letter)
ROFL is “rofl” just as it is spelled, though...
~KEVOH <-- pronounced letter by letter ;)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
why don’t we just call ourselves
“Brights?”
|
lol I’m trying to push “neoilluminati” but it
isn’t taking:-( Maybe “Legoluminati”?
Just trying to help.
JOHN
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Joe Strout wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
|
|
| |
| |
So, you like it better because there was little thought behind it? Next
you’ll be saying you voted for Bush. :)
|
Holy moley, them’s fightin’ words!
|
Methinks he doth protest too much. Out with it-- that dirty little secret will
eat you alive, Dave!
<snip>
| |
I wondered the same thing. Curse that scoundrel John Neal and his
willy-nilly FUT-ing!
|
It may have been a little wily, but I categorically deny any nilly!
If it ain’t OT yet, I’ll make it so, number 1! (FUTOTF)
JOHN
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
| |
So, you like it better because there was little thought behind it? Next
you’ll be saying you voted for Bush. :)
|
Holy moley, them’s fightin’ words!
|
OK, that was a low blow, I apologize!
| |
To be honest, I’ve never heard anyone describe himself as an enthusiast of
any hobby. Even if he did, he wouldn’t say “I’m an adult train enthusiast,”
because that sounds like he’s only into burlesque trains (which he may be,
but that’s beside the point...)
|
Heh, true in that case, but that’s because trains have become widely accepted as
an adult hobby. LEGO has not.
| |
If you’re really invested in the term, I’d suggest dropping “Adult” from the
acronym because it serves no purpose other than compartmentalization. If
you’re speaking to non-LEGO savvy listeners, chances are good that they’ll
recognize you as an adult, right?
|
Yes, and they’ll be thinking: “This guy plays with LEGOs? Does he still live
with his mother and collect stickers too?”
Or worse, if the context is such that it’s clear I’m a member of some sort of
group of LEGO hobbyists, they’ll be thinking: “This guy hangs out with kids that
are into LEGO? What is he, some sort of pedophile?” These images all come from
the commonly-held assumption that LEGO is a kids’ toy, and a group of LEGO
enthusiasts is therefore a group of kids -- apart from the speaker, who must
therefore be some sort of freak.
That’s why “adult” needs to be in the group term -- it makes it clear that the
group you’re a part of is not a bunch of kids, but fully grown men and women
like yourself (er, the speaker that is).
| |
What’s wrong with “Hobbyist” as a term? We all participate in LEGO as a
hobby, right?
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Yes, and “hobbyist” certainly isn’t terrible. Adult LEGO Hobbyist doesn’t make
for much of an acronym, though. But I’d readily admit that it’s better than
AFOL.
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Do we all participate in LEGO as an enthusiasm? I know, it’s
not a 100% precise comparison, but I think it underscores my point that
“enthusiast,” though certainly part of the lexicon, just sounds tritely
artificial to me. Like referring to a “Bottle Shoppe” for no particular
reason.
|
Hmm, very interesting -- my experience with the language is quite different.
People describe themselves as enthusiasts of this or that all the time. Perhaps
it’s a regional thing? (FWIW, I grew up in the midwest and also lived for a
number of years in San Diego.)
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Jeez, is it as serious as all that? I couldn’t care less if society accepts
or understand my involvement in the hobby.
|
Well, suit yourself then, but I do care. Perfectly normal, grown men can play
with little toy trains all day long and nobody thinks them eccentric, but tell
somebody you collect and build with LEGO, and they look at you like you’re
trying to recapture your youth or some such nonsense. This annoys me. No, it’s
not important in the grand scheme of things, but I’ll do my bit to change it as
I can. We’ll knock those “World’s Greatest Hobby” train guys off their pedestal
yet!
| |
And, judging from the huge
response that LEGO train shows seem to garner, society welcomes “us” as well
as it welcomes any subculture of hobbyists. Even the aforementioned SCA,
haven for ubergeeks of all stripes, attracts a huge crowd whenever it puts on
a public demonstration.
|
So do bearded ladies and snake charmers -- people love a spectacle. It hardly
indicates acceptance (of the sort I’m after, anyway).
Best,
- Joe
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In lugnet.general, Joe Strout wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
Jeez, is it as serious as all that? I couldn’t care less if society accepts
or understand my involvement in the hobby.
|
Well, suit yourself then, but I do care. Perfectly normal, grown men can
play with little toy trains all day long and nobody thinks them eccentric,
but tell somebody you collect and build with LEGO, and they look at you like
you’re trying to recapture your youth or some such nonsense. This annoys me.
No, it’s not important in the grand scheme of things, but I’ll do my bit to
change it as I can. We’ll knock those “World’s Greatest Hobby” train guys
off their pedestal yet!
Best,
- Joe
|
It certainly is interesting following this thread..... I was a secret “AFOL/ALE”
from 1980-86. No internet, no knowledge of any other adult who even cared about
Lego. I was in the proverbial “Lego Closet” for all those years. Then 4 things
happened all within 6 months in 1986-87. Because I put a couple of my buildings
in a toy store window display, I suddenly got into a metro Detroit newspaper.
Then TLG sent someone over to interview me, and then I was on a Canadian TV news
type show (The Journal), which was doing a special on 25 years of Lego in Canada
(1987). And finally I got a call from Henry Wiencik, the author of The World Of
Lego Toys who interviewed me over the phone (page 30 of the book).
Well I was sorta scared, cuz I didn’t know what most of my friends and family
would think if they knew I was an AFOL!!! I had kept all of my Lego at my
buddy’s house, the friend who played with Lego with me when we were 7 years old.
Would I be a laughing stock at work? Would my friends think I was immature?
Would my family think I was in need of therapy? I felt like I was in my own
Woody Allen movie, but with Lego.
As it turned out, my angst turned to pleasure when they all thought it was way
cool. I even got a call from my 6th grade school teacher saying how proud she
was (I was about 30 years old at this time).
So I can really respect some people being sensitive to what others might think
of them. The word “ADULT” should stay in the acronym. At least for a few more
years....
Gary Istok
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In lugnet.general, Joe Strout wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
|
| |
| |
To be honest, I’ve never heard anyone describe himself as an enthusiast of
any hobby. Even if he did, he wouldn’t say “I’m an adult train enthusiast,”
because that sounds like he’s only into burlesque trains (which he may be,
but that’s beside the point...)
|
Heh, true in that case, but that’s because trains have become widely accepted
as an adult hobby. LEGO has not.
|
That’s a good point. If I were to hear a child described as “into trains,” I
would just assume that it meant Thomas, or maybe that he liked to watch his
parents’ train sets. More than being “accepted” as an adult hobby, I’d guess
that it’s a primarily adult hobby.
| |
if the context is such that it’s clear I’m a member of some sort of
group of LEGO hobbyists, they’ll be thinking: “This guy hangs out with kids
that are into LEGO? What is he, some sort of pedophile?” These images all
come from the commonly-held assumption that LEGO is a kids’ toy, and a group
of LEGO enthusiasts is therefore a group of kids -- apart from the speaker,
who must therefore be some sort of freak.
That’s why “adult” needs to be in the group term -- it makes it clear that
the group you’re a part of is not a bunch of kids, but fully grown men and
women like yourself (er, the speaker that is).
|
Not a bad argument. I have to admit that I’ve felt the discomfort of suspicious
stares while browsing the shelves in a particular store (in which any guy who
wasn’t clearly tethered to a responsible-seeming woman was, I felt, assumed to
be some kind of deviant). I guess that this same discomfort may arise in other
settings. too.
| |
Hmm, very interesting -- my experience with the language is quite different.
People describe themselves as enthusiasts of this or that all the time.
Perhaps it’s a regional thing? (FWIW, I grew up in the midwest and also
lived for a number of years in San Diego.)
|
I’ve lived in eastern, central, and western Pennsylvania for just about all of
my life, and I’ve never really come across “enthusiast” except to describe a
“gun enthusiast” or a “wine enthusiast,” and each term is laden with the
sterotypical political baggage that one can probably infer. Maybe that’s why
“enthusiast” as a self-descriptor leaves me cold?
| |
| |
Jeez, is it as serious as all that? I couldn’t care less if society accepts
or understand my involvement in the hobby.
|
Well, suit yourself then, but I do care. Perfectly normal, grown men can
play with little toy trains all day long and nobody thinks them eccentric,
but tell somebody you collect and build with LEGO, and they look at you like
you’re trying to recapture your youth or some such nonsense. This annoys me.
No, it’s not important in the grand scheme of things, but I’ll do my bit to
change it as I can.
|
This part of your post (and Gerhard’s reply) opened my eyes a bit. Honestly, I
don’t care what the outside world thinks of my hobby, but it’s wrong of me to
think that other LEGO hobbyists/enthusiasts don’t or shouldn’t care. I’m
content to share my involvement in the hobby online (and in this forum in
particular), but for those with a greater desire for outreach, a wider stage may
be desirable.
Maybe part of my attitude stems from my fondness for clone brands, which sort of
isolates me even here on LUGNET. Not that I’m complaining--the
.off-topic.clone-brands group is fine with me, but I think it’s helped me to
develop an attitude of “if anyone else does or doesn’t like it, that’s fine.”
| |
We’ll knock those “World’s Greatest Hobby” train guys
off their pedestal yet!
|
And let’s start with John “I love 8-wide” Neal. He’s nothing but trouble.
| |
| |
And, judging from the huge
response that LEGO train shows seem to garner, society welcomes “us” as well
as it welcomes any subculture of hobbyists. Even the aforementioned SCA,
haven for ubergeeks of all stripes, attracts a huge crowd whenever it puts
on a public demonstration.
|
So do bearded ladies and snake charmers -- people love a spectacle. It
hardly indicates acceptance (of the sort I’m after, anyway).
|
Hee-hee! That wasn’t quite how I intended it. I meant that the “spectacle” of
a LEGO train show seems (IMO) sufficiently cool--even for the uninitiated--to
engage their interest without inviting derision. Sure, you’ll get detractors,
but there are jerks in every group (like that 8-wide-loving so-and-so... (just
kidding)), but that’s how it goes.
For comparison, I’ve built a bunch of shirts and/or coats of chain mail. When
they’re displayed, someone will invariably say “you need to get a life,” rather
than “you connected 70,000 links by hand? That’s cool.” Oh, well. I can let
it bother me, or I can dismiss the detractor as a knucklehead(1).
Dave!
(1) That same knucklehead will, approximately 87.46% of the time, observe that
“this won’t stop a bullet.” Thanks for the ballistics lesson, you knob. And I
note that your ceramic/composite flak jacket won’t stop a weapon from 800 years
in the future, either.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
For comparison, I’ve built a bunch of shirts and/or coats of chain mail.
When they’re displayed, someone will invariably say “you need to get a life,”
rather than “you connected 70,000 links by hand? That’s cool.” Oh, well. I
can let it bother me, or I can dismiss the detractor as a knucklehead(1).
Dave!
(1) That same knucklehead will, approximately 87.46% of the time, observe
that “this won’t stop a bullet.” Thanks for the ballistics lesson, you knob.
And I note that your ceramic/composite flak jacket won’t stop a weapon from
800 years in the future, either.
|
Dave, I got a good chuckle out of your knucklehead comments. Very funny!
Eric
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
(1) That same knucklehead will, approximately 87.46% of the time, observe
that “this won’t stop a bullet.” Thanks for the ballistics lesson, you knob.
And I note that your ceramic/composite flak jacket won’t stop a weapon from
800 years in the future, either.
|
LOL, probably won’t help much against a good sharp broadsword either...
ROSCO
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