| |
So,
All this complaining about color problems, and here I am complaining about my
shiny new Knight Bus with mismatched purple bricks. I figure Lego has good
customer service, let me give them a call. Really, I am pretty sure Jake has
mentioned that complaints to customer service go a long way, so I was gonna do
just that. I had my list of 22 (yes 22) parts that were the wrong color.
(Actually, there were some that were borderline, but I didn’t put them on my
list. Sometimes they looked like they matched, and other times they didn’t.)
Anyway, so I call them, and the nice lady who answered understood my problem.
She didn’t ask for my list of parts, but she did say that they had built the
Knight Bus at Customer Service and noticed the same problem. She didn’t want to
give me new parts, but she told me she would check with someone higher up, and
see what the deal is with that set. They honestly didn’t know if it was a
mistake or if it was supposed to be that way. She said they would call me back
to update me.
The next day (today) they did call back! I was fairly amazed. I was sure I was
going to have to call back after a week of waiting. Not because I mistrust Lego
so much, as I have a general distruct of call centers. Anyway, I got the higher
up person, who told me she had called Billund to find out the story. Here it
is:
The pieces for the Knight Bus were made with ABS from two different suppliers.
(I presume that any given piece had the same supplier, but between pieces might
not--hence the variation.) She said the variation was only slight (I disagreed
with her firmly there) and that while an adult might see it, a child might not
(I again firmly disagreed). While I was not offered replacement parts, she did
offer to process it as a return (I had bought it at a Lego retail store, I guess
you can return those to S@H.)
But here is the big thing: I asked if they had had any other complaints about
this. Apparently, I was the first one. I was quite surprised! With all the
moaning and groaning on here, not one other person had complained?? (Ok, so
this is in the U.S., so I guess I can only say no one else in North America
complained, but still...)
Well, this is a call to action. If you are really concerned about Lego’s
quality standards, and you own a mismatched Knight Bus, you should call Lego
Cuastomer Service. Tell them you are really dissatisfied with the product.
Tell them it doesn’t match thier catalog pictures. Maybe the company will get
the picture.
Oh BTW, big Kudos for Lego Customer Service. They were very friendly, and even
when I was disagreeing with their suggestions (“A bus might have color
variations on the side.”) they were very helpful, and were honestly trying to
resolve the problem. (Which they did, but I think what they did was a one-time
thing only, so I won’t repeat it.) I really hope the Lego company understands
just how important those people in Enfield really are. :)
Ok thats my story. I thought you would like to know.
-Alfred
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In lugnet.color, Alfred Speredelozzi wrote:
| |
So,
All this complaining about color problems, and here I am complaining about my
shiny new Knight Bus with mismatched purple bricks. I figure Lego has good
customer service, let me give them a call. Really, I am pretty sure Jake has
mentioned that complaints to customer service go a long way, so I was gonna
do just that. I had my list of 22 (yes 22) parts that were the wrong color.
(Actually, there were some that were borderline, but I didn’t put them on my
list. Sometimes they looked like they matched, and other times they didn’t.)
Anyway, so I call them, and the nice lady who answered understood my problem.
She didn’t ask for my list of parts, but she did say that they had built the
Knight Bus at Customer Service and noticed the same problem. She didn’t want
to give me new parts, but she told me she would check with someone higher up,
and see what the deal is with that set. They honestly didn’t know if it was
a mistake or if it was supposed to be that way. She said they would call me
back to update me.
The next day (today) they did call back! I was fairly amazed. I was sure I
was going to have to call back after a week of waiting. Not because I
mistrust Lego so much, as I have a general distruct of call centers. Anyway,
I got the higher up person, who told me she had called Billund to find out
the story. Here it is:
The pieces for the Knight Bus were made with ABS from two different
suppliers. (I presume that any given piece had the same supplier, but
between pieces might not--hence the variation.) She said the variation was
only slight (I disagreed with her firmly there) and that while an adult might
see it, a child might not (I again firmly disagreed). While I was not
offered replacement parts, she did offer to process it as a return (I had
bought it at a Lego retail store, I guess you can return those to S@H.)
But here is the big thing: I asked if they had had any other complaints
about this. Apparently, I was the first one. I was quite surprised! With
all the moaning and groaning on here, not one other person had complained??
(Ok, so this is in the U.S., so I guess I can only say no one else in North
America complained, but still...)
Well, this is a call to action. If you are really concerned about Lego’s
quality standards, and you own a mismatched Knight Bus, you should call Lego
Cuastomer Service. Tell them you are really dissatisfied with the product.
Tell them it doesn’t match thier catalog pictures. Maybe the company will
get the picture.
Oh BTW, big Kudos for Lego Customer Service. They were very friendly, and
even when I was disagreeing with their suggestions (“A bus might have color
variations on the side.”) they were very helpful, and were honestly trying to
resolve the problem. (Which they did, but I think what they did was a
one-time thing only, so I won’t repeat it.) I really hope the Lego company
understands just how important those people in Enfield really are. :)
Ok thats my story. I thought you would like to know.
-Alfred
|
Thanks for the info and taking the time to post this.
I put together mine yesterday night and I was very upset at the contrast
of pieces. As for the story, I don’t really buy that considering that
the same part is in 2 different shades.
I might have to see what Lego can do for me. However, I will only
“trade my knight bus in” for one that is ok. If they can’t replace mine
then I’ll make due with the messed up one that I have.
Ben M.
ps. Alfred, you saved me time from having to begin a senseless rant.
Thanks for saving me time!!! :)
|
|
| |
In lugnet.color, Benjamin Medinets wrote:
| |
Thanks for the info and taking the time to post this.
I put together mine yesterday night and I was very upset at the contrast
of pieces. As for the story, I don’t really buy that considering that
the same part is in 2 different shades.
I might have to see what Lego can do for me. However, I will only
“trade my knight bus in” for one that is ok. If they can’t replace mine
then I’ll make due with the messed up one that I have.
Ben M.
ps. Alfred, you saved me time from having to begin a senseless rant.
Thanks for saving me time!!! :)
|
Today we got some further information about this on our Danish LUG’s forum.
Our contact from TLC, Bjarke H. Nielsen, asked quality management on our
behalfes and got this answer:
The Harry Potter Knight Bus
We would like to stress that the colour variance of the bricks for the bus is
within our specified tolerances. We realize that many LEGO enthusiasts consider
this bad quality, but to our core consumers, who for this set are boys and girls
aged 7-12 the play experience is in focus. The fact that the colour variation
does not play an important role to children is also reflected in the consumer
feed back that our Consumer Service department has captured regarding the bus so
far.
We find it important to note that the colour deviation is not an error as it is
still within our specifications, but we have been dealing with a sensitive
colour regarding visibility of deviations.
1. The purple color is extremely difficult to manage from a production
perspective and at the same time a new colour to the color palette of LEGO
Company.
2. For the production of the launch quantity LEGO Company used 2 different
suppliers of raw material that produces the raw material in two different ways –
pre-colored and compounded. Some of the color changes might occur due to these
deliveries.
3. The purple color changes significantly dependent on which type of light it
is seen in. In bright daylight the variance is much less than in e.g. office
neon light.
4. Opposite to most other LEGO models the same color is used on a relatively
large flat surface which makes the color variance even more visible to the human
eye.
Based on the above, we have decided to use a raw material for future production
for which the colour tolerance is considerably narrower than what we usually
require from our raw materials.
Just thougth I would share,
Martin
http://www.byggepladen.dk/
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In lugnet.color, Martin Bruun wrote:
| |
In lugnet.color, Benjamin Medinets wrote:
| |
Thanks for the info and taking the time to post this.
I put together mine yesterday night and I was very upset at the contrast
of pieces. As for the story, I don’t really buy that considering that
the same part is in 2 different shades.
I might have to see what Lego can do for me. However, I will only
“trade my knight bus in” for one that is ok. If they can’t replace mine
then I’ll make due with the messed up one that I have.
Ben M.
ps. Alfred, you saved me time from having to begin a senseless rant.
Thanks for saving me time!!! :)
|
Today we got some further information about this on our Danish LUG’s forum.
Our contact from TLC, Bjarke H. Nielsen, asked quality management on our
behalfes and got this answer:
The Harry Potter Knight Bus
We would like to stress that the colour variance of the bricks for the bus is
within our specified tolerances. We realize that many LEGO enthusiasts
consider this bad quality, but to our core consumers, who for this set are
boys and girls aged 7-12 the play experience is in focus. The fact that the
colour variation does not play an important role to children is also
reflected in the consumer feed back that our Consumer Service department has
captured regarding the bus so far.
We find it important to note that the colour deviation is not an error as it
is still within our specifications, but we have been dealing with a sensitive
colour regarding visibility of deviations.
1. The purple color is extremely difficult to manage from a production
perspective and at the same time a new colour to the color palette of LEGO
Company.
2. For the production of the launch quantity LEGO Company used 2 different
suppliers of raw material that produces the raw material in two different
ways – pre-colored and compounded. Some of the color changes might occur due
to these deliveries.
3. The purple color changes significantly dependent on which type of light
it is seen in. In bright daylight the variance is much less than in e.g.
office neon light.
4. Opposite to most other LEGO models the same color is used on a
relatively large flat surface which makes the color variance even more
visible to the human eye.
Based on the above, we have decided to use a raw material for future
production for which the colour tolerance is considerably narrower than what
we usually require from our raw materials.
Just thougth I would share,
Martin
http://www.byggepladen.dk/
|
Spotlighted! I hope this gets stoplighted enough so that people outside of the
.color group can see it. It is sad to me that, basically, TLC is saying that
the color variation is fine and that the bus is meant to be played with and the
mismatched colors don’t matter so much.
It is also interesting to me that Consumer Service has not heard about the
problem much. For all the ranting that goes on here, I guess it doesn’t really
get to TLC unless it is pursued through channels that they have established. I
would call in a complaint myself, but I am never going to buy this set based on
the negative reviews and pictures that people have posted about the colors.
On the other hand, I am not convinced that Consumer Affairs really listens and
records complaints properly. Maybe this is just paranoia on my part, but I
never have gotten a sense of them listening to my messages. For instance, I
recently went through my white and blue bricks and picked out the ones that had
yellowed signigicantly. I sent Consumer Affairs two e-mails about possible
replacement of the parts and the associated cost. The first reply was very
generic and didn’t even seem to address the question I had. I sent another
e-mail, again asking the question and noting that the first response was not
related to my questions. The second reply asked me to call and speak to someone
directly. Rather than do that, I sent a longish letter (along with my previous
e-mails and bricks) to Consumer Affairs. I asked that they recycle my bricks if
they were not able to be replaced.
I got my package back (bricks and all), along with a letter that told me about
the bulk service packs program that CA/S@H offers. Of course, I already knew
about the bulk packs - I had mentioned it in my first e-mail and subsequent
letter. It seemed that CA didn’t read my correspondence because they kept
mentioning the bulk pack program that I was aware of and did not mention my
request to recycle the bricks at all (I eventually donated the bricks to
Goodwill - I suppose thinking that someone to whom the color variance wouldn’t
prevent enjoyment of the toy might pick them up).
Anyway, I am not sure if I will write or call CA for anything anymore. My
experiences with them have been a waste of time at best. Last year, I bought
something at the LEGO Outlet that was missing parts and after calling CA I got
the parts replaced, but at a price of $10 (it was a $20 set missing 7-8 pieces -
damaged box). The set was widely available for $10 at the time and the only
reason I paid CA for the parts versus buying it again elsewhere was that I felt
guilty for keeping someone on the phone going through which parts were missing
before they stated the cost. I would have felt bad for going through that and
then saying, “well, I’ll just go to Wal*mart and buy another copy for that
price.”
So, my solution from now on is to depend on reviews and opinions on LUGNET and
leave CA out of it.
--
Thomas Main
thomasmain@myrealbox.com
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|
| |
In lugnet.color, Thomas Main wrote:
| |
Anyway, I am not sure if I will write or call CA for anything anymore. My
experiences with them have been a waste of time at best. Last year, I bought
something at the LEGO Outlet that was missing parts and after calling CA I
got the parts replaced, but at a price of $10 (it was a $20 set missing 7-8
pieces - damaged box). The set was widely available for $10 at the time and
the only reason I paid CA for the parts versus buying it again elsewhere was
that I felt guilty for keeping someone on the phone going through which parts
were missing before they stated the cost. I would have felt bad for going
through that and then saying, “well, I’ll just go to Wal*mart and buy another
copy for that price.”
|
I don’t understand why they charged you for the missing parts. In the past,
I’ve received missing parts for free. In fact, each time they’ve been quite
apologetic about the situation. Is this a new policy? Or, does it have
something to do with buying the set from LEGO Outlet?
Mark
|
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In lugnet.color, Benjamin Medinets wrote:
| |
In lugnet.color, Alfred Speredelozzi wrote:
Thanks for the info and taking the time to post this.
I put together mine yesterday night and I was very upset at the contrast
of pieces. As for the story, I don’t really buy that considering that
the same part is in 2 different shades.
I might have to see what Lego can do for me. However, I will only
“trade my knight bus in” for one that is ok. If they can’t replace mine
then I’ll make due with the messed up one that I have.
Ben M.
ps. Alfred, you saved me time from having to begin a senseless rant.
Thanks for saving me time!!! :)
|
No problem, glad I could help.
|
|
| |
In lugnet.color, Martin Bruun wrote:
| |
Today we got some further information about this on our Danish LUG’s forum.
Our contact from TLC, Bjarke H. Nielsen, asked quality management on our
behalfes and got this answer:
The Harry Potter Knight Bus
We would like to stress that the colour variance of the bricks for the bus is
within our specified tolerances. We realize that many LEGO enthusiasts
consider this bad quality, but to our core consumers, who for this set are
boys and girls aged 7-12 the play experience is in focus. The fact that the
colour variation does not play an important role to children is also
reflected in the consumer feed back that our Consumer Service department has
captured regarding the bus so far.
We find it important to note that the colour deviation is not an error as it
is still within our specifications, but we have been dealing with a sensitive
colour regarding visibility of deviations.
1. The purple color is extremely difficult to manage from a production
perspective and at the same time a new colour to the color palette of LEGO
Company.
2. For the production of the launch quantity LEGO Company used 2 different
suppliers of raw material that produces the raw material in two different
ways – pre-colored and compounded. Some of the color changes might occur due
to these deliveries.
3. The purple color changes significantly dependent on which type of light
it is seen in. In bright daylight the variance is much less than in e.g.
office neon light.
4. Opposite to most other LEGO models the same color is used on a
relatively large flat surface which makes the color variance even more
visible to the human eye.
Based on the above, we have decided to use a raw material for future
production for which the colour tolerance is considerably narrower than what
we usually require from our raw materials.
Just thougth I would share,
Martin
http://www.byggepladen.dk/
|
Hey this is cool. Thanks for the post. It does seem as thoa Lego is trying to
fix the problem internally. I can give them slack for: 1) a new color (takes
time to make sure it works right) 2) a new process? (using multiple ABS
suppliers, gotta keep costs down) 3) a new set.
Honestly, this set hasn’t hit the stores very hard, yet, and the movie is still
about a month away. After the movie, I would expect Lego CA should get more
complaints, cause even if the kids don’t notice, the parents will. Sure its a
toy, but if you pay $30 for something, it shouldn’t look like crap. Besides, it
seems Harry Potter fans include a lot of older people (teens, adults, an me!)
who will notice this--if only becuase they are closely comparing it to what they
imagined in the book.
-Alfred
|
|
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| |
Our contact from TLC, Bjarke H. Nielsen, asked quality management on our
behalfes and got this answer:
The Harry Potter Knight Bus
We would like to stress that the colour variance of the bricks for the bus is
within our specified tolerances. We realize that many LEGO enthusiasts
consider this bad quality, but to our core consumers, who for this set are
boys and girls aged 7-12 the play experience is in focus. The fact that the
colour variation does not play an important role to children is also
reflected in the consumer feed back that our Consumer Service department has
captured regarding the bus so far.
We find it important to note that the colour deviation is not an error as it
is still within our specifications, but we have been dealing with a sensitive
colour regarding visibility of deviations.
1. The purple color is extremely difficult to manage from a production
perspective and at the same time a new colour to the color palette of LEGO
Company.
2. For the production of the launch quantity LEGO Company used 2 different
suppliers of raw material that produces the raw material in two different
ways – pre-colored and compounded. Some of the color changes might occur due
to these deliveries.
3. The purple color changes significantly dependent on which type of light
it is seen in. In bright daylight the variance is much less than in e.g.
office neon light.
4. Opposite to most other LEGO models the same color is used on a
relatively large flat surface which makes the color variance even more
visible to the human eye.
Based on the above, we have decided to use a raw material for future
production for which the colour tolerance is considerably narrower than what
we usually require from our raw materials.
Just thougth I would share,
Martin
http://www.byggepladen.dk/
|
Thanks for the info Martin. I’ve been interested in this set and am still
considering buying it. I’ve seen pictures of the color difference and it makes
it a tough call if I want to invest dollars in it.
Maybe I’m just someone who sees the glass as half full but to me the good news
from the message from the TLC representative is that Lego has decided to use raw
materials in the future which will minimize purple color differences like this.
At least they are listening to their customers, especially the ALOFs.
Tom
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In lugnet.color, Tom Manderson wrote:
| |
Maybe I’m just someone who sees the glass as half full but to me the good
news from the message from the TLC representative is that Lego has decided to
use raw materials in the future which will minimize purple color differences
like this. At least they are listening to their customers, especially the
ALOFs.
Tom
|
That was also my thought.
Wait a few months for the film to be released and let all the 7-12 years olds
have the launch batch for themselves.
Martin
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In lugnet.color, Martin Bruun wrote:
| |
The Harry Potter Knight Bus
We would like to stress that the colour variance of the bricks for the bus is
within our specified tolerances. We realize that many LEGO enthusiasts
consider this bad quality, but to our core consumers, who for this set are • boys and girls aged 7-12 the play experience is in focus. The fact that the
colour variation does not play an important role to children is also
reflected in the consumer feed back that our Consumer Service department has
captured regarding the bus so far.
|
So, if the kids don;’t care so much about color variation, why the change to
bley? How can such a “minor” color change test “positively” if kids don’t notice
these things? I’m curious about these lines of reasoning. It seems some parts of
the company believe one thing, and other parts, like the Design Lab, believe
another.
Roy
|
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In lugnet.color, Roy Gal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.color, Martin Bruun wrote:
| |
The Harry Potter Knight Bus
We would like to stress that the colour variance of the bricks for the bus
is within our specified tolerances. We realize that many LEGO enthusiasts
consider this bad quality, but to our core consumers, who for this set are
boys and girls aged 7-12 the play experience is in focus. The fact that
the colour variation does not play an important role to children is also
reflected in the consumer feed back that our Consumer Service department has
captured regarding the bus so far.
|
So, if the kids don;’t care so much about color variation, why the change to
bley? How can such a “minor” color change test “positively” if kids don’t
notice these things? I’m curious about these lines of reasoning. It seems
some parts of the company believe one thing, and other parts, like the Design
Lab, believe another.
Roy
|
Oh, indeed. It is quite possible that the Design Lab and the Quality Control
group see things a bit differently. Wouldn’t it be funny if they all agreed all
the time? As Jake mentioned, these are humans we are talking about. What makes
you think they would all agree? Maybe you are just too used to us all agreeing
here on Lugnet, thats got to be it. :)
In the grand scheme of things, I can see how one might consider this a “minor”
variation. I don’t consider it that, but plenty of people here have said they
barely notice.
-Alfred
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Martin Bruun wrote:
> Our contact from TLC, Bjarke H. Nielsen, asked quality management on our
> behalfes and got this answer:
When you answer this, you should propably point them to this page:
http://www.lego.com/eng/info/default.asp?page=values and ask them on how
their acceptance of obvious quality issues as within the limits can
coexist with those core values.
The big problem is that the whole production of this set is botched and
should go to the bin. This is something they can't afford right now, and
they can't create acceptable quality sets until the movie starts. So
they desperately try to tell us that the man behind the curtain is
nothing we should take notice of. And that children are stupid and
colourblind.
Now thats Lego as I know it. Active disinterest in the customers, just
like in their golden times. If they only brought back the good things
that they had back then, too.
Yours, Christian
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In lugnet.color, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> Martin Bruun wrote:
> > Our contact from TLC, Bjarke H. Nielsen, asked quality management on our
> > behalfes and got this answer:
> When you answer this, you should propably point them to this page:
> http://www.lego.com/eng/info/default.asp?page=values and ask them on how
> their acceptance of obvious quality issues as within the limits can
> coexist with those core values.
I agree, I don't think this particular set lives up to TLC's core values nor
their quality policy as it is expressed in their latest annual report page 21
"In LEGO Company we aim to exceed our Consumer's expectations of our products,
our services and of their experiences with the LEGO brand."
>
> The big problem is that the whole production of this set is botched and
> should go to the bin. This is something they can't afford right now, and
> they can't create acceptable quality sets until the movie starts.
What makes you think, that a company with an equity of about 950 million US$
couldn't afford to scrap a set?
The question is whether it would be a wise thing to do. You are probably right,
that they can't produce an improved Knight Bus in time for the film. And I
beliewe they are right when they say, that the color mismatch in the Knight Bus
doesn't matter much to most kids.
> So
> they desperately try to tell us that the man behind the curtain is
> nothing we should take notice of. And that children are stupid and
> colourblind.
Sorry I don't see any desperation and where do they say children are stupid and
colorblind?
>
> Now thats Lego as I know it. Active disinterest in the customers,
Ok, so 165 employees in customer service, TLC's active support and participation
in fan created events and a dedicated team in community development is "active
disinterest"
You have to explain what the term "active interest" would be then.
> just
> like in their golden times. If they only brought back the good things
> that they had back then, too.
Agreed they have made great stuff in the past, not like those crappy Santa Fe
trains, UCS sets, sculptures and Designer sets they make now... right..
Martin
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Martin Bruun wrote:
> What makes you think, that a company with an equity of about 950
> million US$ couldn't afford to scrap a set?
Maybe because it would cost money they currently don't have? Have you
followed the news about Legos financial situation or the massive layoffs
recently?
> The question is whether it would be a wise thing to do. You are
> probably right, that they can't produce an improved Knight Bus in
> time for the film. And I beliewe they are right when they say, that
> the color mismatch in the Knight Bus doesn't matter much to most
> kids.
Maybe some kids don't. But the set makes Lego look cheap as in "cheap
clone from china" - and even the chinese clone makers sets are better
than that. This might or might not noticed by parents, who might or
might not think twice the next time they spend US$30 on a toy.
Point is, that the way above market average prices of Lego sets have
been justified in the past with a superior quality of the product. If
they fail to reach that mark *and* the customers notice that, they can't
stick to those prices anymore. And this will hurt badly.
> Sorry I don't see any desperation and where do they say children are
> stupid and colorblind?
To quote the text from Lego Billund: "...the colour variation
does not play an important role to children...". OK, admittedly, they
did not write that kids are stupid or colourblind. But they act as if
they were.
> Ok, so 165 employees in customer service, TLC's active support and
> participation in fan created events and a dedicated team in community
> development is "active disinterest"
There are different levels of customer contact.
There are the call centers who take care of minor problems like the
increasing number of complains about missing or damaged pieces. This is
ok, as mistakes and accidents can happen with any product, and they have
to take care of this anyway. Their big problem is that they are getting
worse at the moment: people who contacted Lego support about the knight
bus have been replied to with standard letters about the grey and brown
colour change. Go figure.
This support and participation in fan created events has happened twice
in Europe so far (IIRC), and the one event I had the chance to
participate did not really yield that much. They put up some
Winni-The-Poo and other figurines for free, the had a building table for
the kids and a room for themselves where they exhibited a few of the
current sets. Yes, there was a Q&A that did help as much as discussing
with Jake ("I can't talk about it", "You'll love it" and "I don't
know" were the predominant answers). If I take into account that the
whole rest of the event was done, managed and paid by fans and visitors,
they had a big case of dirt cheap advertising with all that. In total,
the event support happens - as far as I can derive from the net - more
or less exclusively in the US, anyway.
And for community development - even those community developers have to
admit that their stand within the company is so weak that it is better
to contact the call centers about the problems that irk us. We were
lucky to do a bulk order at Lego last spring via Community Development.
But: The bricks have been paid for somewhere last summer, and i'm still
waiting for the last bricks (no, nothing exotic, just a few hundred red
slopes 45 2x2 double convex in red). Anything else of the job seems to
be a kind of company spokesperson stuff. The new guy in Europe for
example has so far only posted translations of Jakes Lugnet postings,
and has joined the chat a few times. Yes, he is new, but so far his
visibility is extremely low. Even some of the more patient members have
raised the question whether he was only hired as a translator. I
sincerely hope that he gets better than that in the future.
Until now, the CD persons only started to react when the noise went up
considerabely, but - as Jake admitted - way too late to change anything.
And their "Great Achievements" with legend sets and similar were (IMHO)
not that impressive, either.
> You have to explain what the term "active interest" would be then.
Well, so far I have not seen CD reactions to the knight bus problem or
the other quality issues that came up in the recent months like the
question about different height of plates, and such. This is one
of the areas where they should be way more active. Maybe Jakes "Top
Secret" project is something that is intended to really help us, but the
way he communicated it simply sucks, and the outcome is undetermined.
What I expect from a community contact person is proactive communcation
and action, i.e. when people started to discuss about the knight bus
problem, and it became an issue that was not limited to a few sets, I
would expect such a contact to respond to this, even if it is only a
note along the lines of "OK, I noticed that you see this as a problem,
I'll see what the stuff is all about.". Jake or whoever could easily
order such a set internally and see that the problem is real, find the
person responsible for these quality issues and talk to him/her. This
would be a prime example of "active interest". This did not happen.
> Agreed they have made great stuff in the past, not like those crappy
> Santa Fe trains, UCS sets, sculptures and Designer sets they make
> now... right..
Not that I'm really impressed by them. There have been the two
outstanding sets so far (Siskinds Smithy and those Santa Fe waggons,
both AFOL designs, not from Lego!), and a lot of unsolved quality issues
with the sets (bending parts, bad engineering, non-adhering stickers,
and more). Nontheless, I was talking about those sets that can actually
be bought in real shops, and this is where it becomes a real horror
show. The new Knights Kingdom eases the pain about bley insofar as the
sets were not purchase-worthy anyway by their overall design. If that
design was even acceptable, I would have been torn between my urge to
collect the new castle sets and the decision not to buy bley sets.
Luckily, I'm not. The Lego world police state sets is nothing I would
buy for my kid for paedagigical reasons from the very beginning.
Bionicle ist the same, a trading card ripoff put in plastic.
The only big plus so far (although I don't know if this was due to
community development or not) are the PAB shops, even though their
selection and pricing is more or less abysmal.
Yours, Christian
PS: Yes, I know I'm getting emotional about all this. Both the
companies' attitude and Jakes way of communicating "great new things"
are really getting on my nerves recently. I promise to go on holidays in
two weeks time and won't bother you for some days.
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In lugnet.color, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> Martin Bruun wrote:
> > What makes you think, that a company with an equity of about 950
> > million US$ couldn't afford to scrap a set?
> Maybe because it would cost money they currently don't have? Have you
> followed the news about Legos financial situation or the massive layoffs
> recently?
Yes, actually I have.
Trust me on this, it will take several years with results like the one for 2003
to bring this company to it's knees. It is still a very well-consolidated
company. And should the results get worse, they have a very wealthy parent
company (Kirkbi A/S) behind them. This is the company who btw owns the majority
of the stocks in Modulex A/S (the small bricks, signs etc.), Eskofot Purup A/S
(packaging material) and invests in real estate.
The layoffs are about downsizing to the current activity, it is not the same as
the ship is sinking.
>
> > The question is whether it would be a wise thing to do. You are
> > probably right, that they can't produce an improved Knight Bus in
> > time for the film. And I beliewe they are right when they say, that
> > the color mismatch in the Knight Bus doesn't matter much to most
> > kids.
> Maybe some kids don't. But the set makes Lego look cheap as in "cheap
> clone from china" - and even the chinese clone makers sets are better
> than that. This might or might not noticed by parents, who might or
> might not think twice the next time they spend US$30 on a toy.
>
> Point is, that the way above market average prices of Lego sets have
> been justified in the past with a superior quality of the product. If
> they fail to reach that mark *and* the customers notice that, they can't
> stick to those prices anymore. And this will hurt badly.
Can't argue with that, I agree wholeheartedly.
The Knight Bus is a very unfortunate mistake, but in the present situation, seen
from a strict economical viewpoint, I think they are better of, by still selling
it and then hopefully fixing the problem in future production of this set.
> snipped
>
> There are different levels of customer contact.
>
> There are the call centers who take care of minor problems like the
> increasing number of complains about missing or damaged pieces. This is
> ok, as mistakes and accidents can happen with any product, and they have
> to take care of this anyway. Their big problem is that they are getting
> worse at the moment: people who contacted Lego support about the knight
> bus have been replied to with standard letters about the grey and brown
> colour change. Go figure.
Of course, they mistakes, and it would be better if they didn't, but I must say
that customer service is usually very good. Way better than many other companys
> This support and participation in fan created events has happened twice
> in Europe so far (IIRC), and the one event I had the chance to
> participate did not really yield that much. They put up some
> Winni-The-Poo and other figurines for free, the had a building table for
> the kids and a room for themselves where they exhibited a few of the
> current sets. Yes, there was a Q&A that did help as much as discussing
> with Jake ("I can't talk about it", "You'll love it" and "I don't
> know" were the predominant answers). If I take into account that the
> whole rest of the event was done, managed and paid by fans and visitors,
> they had a big case of dirt cheap advertising with all that. In total,
> the event support happens - as far as I can derive from the net - more
> or less exclusively in the US, anyway.
Well, they have been present on many more occasions than just two. In april Jake
McKee and Bjarke H. Nielsen showed up at the first Danish Afol-gathering for
just 30 or so people on a sunday afternoon. And the level of contact with
different Afol-groups keeps growing.
> And for community development - even those community developers have to
> admit that their stand within the company is so weak that it is better
> to contact the call centers about the problems that irk us. We were
> lucky to do a bulk order at Lego last spring via Community Development.
> But: The bricks have been paid for somewhere last summer, and i'm still
> waiting for the last bricks (no, nothing exotic, just a few hundred red
> slopes 45 2x2 double convex in red). Anything else of the job seems to
> be a kind of company spokesperson stuff. The new guy in Europe for
> example has so far only posted translations of Jakes Lugnet postings,
> and has joined the chat a few times. Yes, he is new, but so far his
> visibility is extremely low. Even some of the more patient members have
> raised the question whether he was only hired as a translator. I
> sincerely hope that he gets better than that in the future.
>
> Until now, the CD persons only started to react when the noise went up
> considerabely, but - as Jake admitted - way too late to change anything.
Well, compare with 3 or 4 years ago, which would you prefere?
> And their "Great Achievements" with legend sets and similar were (IMHO)
> not that impressive, either.
Can't argue with your personal opinions. I think they have done a good job.
Let's face it, everyone has their favourite sets and not all can have what they
want.
> > You have to explain what the term "active interest" would be then.
> Well, so far I have not seen CD reactions to the knight bus problem or
> the other quality issues that came up in the recent months like the
> question about different height of plates, and such. This is one
> of the areas where they should be way more active.
Yes, but sometimes all we have to do as Afol's is to ask. It only took a few
hours for Bjarke H. Nielsen yesterday to get an answer to the purple problem.
We need to look at ourselves too. This morning a very speculative thread emerged
on BrickLink about whether the new Maersk Set was a fake or not. All it took was
one person to call a contact within TLC and ask.
> Maybe Jakes "Top
> Secret" project is something that is intended to really help us, but the
> way he communicated it simply sucks, and the outcome is undetermined.
I think this is a prime example of trying to be proactive from TLC
> What I expect from a community contact person is proactive communcation
> and action, i.e. when people started to discuss about the knight bus
> problem, and it became an issue that was not limited to a few sets, I
> would expect such a contact to respond to this, even if it is only a
> note along the lines of "OK, I noticed that you see this as a problem,
> I'll see what the stuff is all about.". Jake or whoever could easily
> order such a set internally and see that the problem is real, find the
> person responsible for these quality issues and talk to him/her. This
> would be a prime example of "active interest". This did not happen.
Yes, that would indeed had been nice, agreed.
> > Agreed they have made great stuff in the past, not like those crappy
> > Santa Fe trains, UCS sets, sculptures and Designer sets they make
> > now... right..
> Not that I'm really impressed by them. There have been the two
> outstanding sets so far (Siskinds Smithy and those Santa Fe waggons,
> both AFOL designs, not from Lego!), and a lot of unsolved quality issues
> with the sets (bending parts, bad engineering, non-adhering stickers,
> and more).
I don't think you are fair here. They have made a lot of good stuff recently.
> Nontheless, I was talking about those sets that can actually
> be bought in real shops, and this is where it becomes a real horror
> show. The new Knights Kingdom eases the pain about bley insofar as the
> sets were not purchase-worthy anyway by their overall design. If that
> design was even acceptable, I would have been torn between my urge to
> collect the new castle sets and the decision not to buy bley sets.
> Luckily, I'm not. The Lego world police state sets is nothing I would
> buy for my kid for paedagigical reasons from the very beginning.
> Bionicle ist the same, a trading card ripoff put in plastic.
Well Bionicle is a top-seller, The latest Adventure sets were great, World City
looks promising to me. There has been a lot of good stuff in the Spiderman sets
lately and remember how technic was declared dead by many Afols just a few years
ago. I agree that the new Catle sets looks too juniorized, but hey owerall I
think they are doing allright at the moment.. Oh I forgot the Designer sets
again, they are good stuff you can buy in regular shops too.
> The only big plus so far (although I don't know if this was due to
> community development or not) are the PAB shops, even though their
> selection and pricing is more or less abysmal.
>
> Yours, Christian
>
> PS: Yes, I know I'm getting emotional about all this. Both the
> companies' attitude and Jakes way of communicating "great new things"
> are really getting on my nerves recently. I promise to go on holidays in
> two weeks time and won't bother you for some days.
Martin
Who refuses to be pessimistic about the future for TLC
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Martin Bruun wrote:
> remember how technic was declared dead by many Afols just a few years
> ago.
There are people which still believe the above is true. Everything below
is just my personal opinion so there is no reason to jump on me in these
sensitive times (hi larry ;) )
The last 'true' Technic set is the Barcode Truck (1997).
Then there are half-Technic sets as Turbo Command, Indy Racer, SuperCar
II, 4x4 Offroader and both F1s, which may be acceptable.
Everything from 2003 is just Znap2, incompatible with SYSTEM bricks
without the 'compatibility layer'.
Have you also noticed that from 2000, there was _no_ motorized Technic
set? It's three years. I wonder if they'll get back to Technic bricks or
are developing new kinds of studless motor housings. They've changed
pneumatics already (althought I'm missing the point why).
I don't know if (having this option) I'd buy 8455 Backhoe again.
Probably yes, given the number of the pneumatics inside. But the low
complexity (from the 'technical' point of view), its size (too small)
and its weakiness (you can't build firm frames using studless beams)
really disappointed me.
I'm going to vote by my wallet - all the money will go to old used
Technic stuff or non-technic stuff (Designer sets are great).
Oh my, thread hijack again...
--
Jindroush <jindroush@nospam.seznam.nospam.cz>
Remove both 'nospam's from the address to reply.
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At least they didn’t try to say the color variation is a “feature” rather than
the “bug” it is!
James Wilson
Dallas, TX
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In lugnet.color, Martin Bruun wrote:
> 1. The purple color is extremely difficult to manage from a production
> perspective and at the same time a new colour to the color palette of LEGO
> Company.
That's true, because purple and magenta need a material that emits both violet
and red light waves, thus having a valley shaped reflectance curve.
Paulo
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You know, if they blew out the current run at 75% off, I'd gladly buy 20 or more.
Then I could sort out the various purples, and build several buses, each a slightly
different shade.
But it would have to be 75% off to get me interested, as I couldn't resell any of
the purple at all - how the HECK would you list the parts? "Purple from Knight Bus,
lighter shade". Yeah, right.
Martin Bruun wrote:
> In lugnet.color, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> > The big problem is that the whole production of this set is botched and
> > should go to the bin. This is something they can't afford right now, and
> > they can't create acceptable quality sets until the movie starts.
>
> What makes you think, that a company with an equity of about 950 million US$
> couldn't afford to scrap a set?
--
Tom Stangl
*http://www.vfaq.com/
*DSM Visual FAQ home
*http://www.vfaq.net/
*Prius Visual FAQ Home
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In lugnet.color, Thomas Stangl wrote:
> You know, if they blew out the current run at 75% off, I'd gladly buy 20 or more.
> Then I could sort out the various purples, and build several buses, each a slightly
> different shade.
>
> But it would have to be 75% off to get me interested, as I couldn't resell any of
> the purple at all - how the HECK would you list the parts? "Purple from Knight Bus,
> lighter shade". Yeah, right.
I think some enterprising enterpreneur will prove you wrong about that. It might
take some discounting rather than full retail before it happens but I don't
expect it to need to go to 75% off.
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Well, sure, others may not need such a discount for major purchases.
But {for me}, it's got to be 75% off before I buy my "normal" amount.
Lar - get some sleep, or read more carefully. You are glossing over posts and missing key
points (nowhere did I say it would have to be 75% off for {everyone} to get interested).
Yet I don't think you'll prove me wrong about listing the purple on BL - unless someone
matches each shade to a Pantone sheet, then lends the Pantone reference sheet to ANY buyer
before buying, there isn't going to be a way to note what color of purple you are {truly}
buying when it comes to the first batch of 4755s (assuming they actually do fix it on
later batches).
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.color, Thomas Stangl wrote:
> > You know, if they blew out the current run at 75% off, I'd gladly buy 20 or more.
> > Then I could sort out the various purples, and build several buses, each a slightly
> > different shade.
> >
> > But it would have to be 75% off to get me interested, as I couldn't resell any of
> > the purple at all - how the HECK would you list the parts? "Purple from Knight Bus,
> > lighter shade". Yeah, right.
>
> I think some enterprising enterpreneur will prove you wrong about that. It might
> take some discounting rather than full retail before it happens but I don't
> expect it to need to go to 75% off.
--
Tom Stangl
*http://www.vfaq.com/
*DSM Visual FAQ home
*http://www.vfaq.net/
*Prius Visual FAQ Home
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snip lots of good stuff
Thanks for the info and taking the time to post this.
I put together mine yesterday night and I was very upset at the contrast
of pieces. As for the story, I don’t really buy that considering that
the same part is in 2 different shades.
I might have to see what Lego can do for me. However, I will only
“trade my knight bus in” for one that is ok. If they can’t replace mine
then I’ll make due with the messed up one that I have.
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Here is where I have an issue about the moaning and groaning that goes on about
the color issues witht the Knight Bus (and Lego color issues in general).
Everyone who is really upset and feels that the color variations are not
acceptable (even though Lego thinks they are) should return the set as defective
and demand that they receive a refund. “Making due” with any substandard
product is not acceptable because it only encourages the company in question to
continue lowering its quality standards.
Maybe if enough people call and complain or if Lego happens to read enough
negative reviews of this product on Lugnet, they might do something... but most
likely they won’t if their bottom line is not significantly affected. As long
as we consumers continue to accept the declining quality of lego product (i.e.
continue buying their product), the company will have no incentive to fix their
problems. If enough Knight Bus sets get returned with “discolored pieces” as
the reason stated for the return or if sales of that set tank, then TLC might
wake up and tighten up their color deviation standards.
Do I hate Lego? NO. I want Lego to be sucessful as any other AFOL. However,
I’m also not a diehard brand purist. I refuse to spend my hard-earned
disposable income on sub-standard product. The day that Lego’s quality sinks
consistently below the quality of Megablocks (or any other clone) is they day I
start buying clone brands.
Lego is not the only hobby/interest I have. Not only are they competing against
clone brands, they are competing against a whole host of other products &
intresets for my consumer dollars. I won’t be buying this set until TLC
releases a batch where the color problem has been fixed. I’ve got other things
to spend $30 on. If I buy any other set that does not meet my expectations, I
will give CA a chance to make things right. If CA does not make things right,
then the product will be returned.
If I were to try to make an analogy, it would be “people who don’t vote
shouldn’t complain about politics/president/etc”. We are voting with our
dollars. If the product does not meet your expectations, then return it or
don’t buy it in the first place.
just some thoughts,
drc
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In lugnet.color, Christian Treczoks wrote:
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Martin Bruun wrote:
| |
What makes you think, that a company with an equity of about 950
million US$ couldn’t afford to scrap a set?
|
Maybe because it would cost money they currently don’t have? Have you
followed the news about Legos financial situation or the massive layoffs
recently?
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Yea. It is sad. But it is also a reason to try and step up support. They are
really one of the few companies that are trying to get it right, rather than
just pandering to us and (more strongly) our children. And by us, I don’t mean
AFOLs, but rather a culture as a whole.
So lets help them get through this, which may mean finding the little silver
linings around all of the problems. For me, it was in the post above that said
Lego was evaluating their manufacturing proceedures and set design proceedures
in order to try and prevent this level of variation.
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The question is whether it would be a wise thing to do. You are
probably right, that they can’t produce an improved Knight Bus in
time for the film. And I beliewe they are right when they say, that
the color mismatch in the Knight Bus doesn’t matter much to most
kids.
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Maybe some kids don’t. But the set makes Lego look cheap as in “cheap
clone from china” - and even the chinese clone makers sets are better
than that. This might or might not noticed by parents, who might or
might not think twice the next time they spend US$30 on a toy.
Point is, that the way above market average prices of Lego sets have
been justified in the past with a superior quality of the product. If
they fail to reach that mark *and* the customers notice that, they can’t
stick to those prices anymore. And this will hurt badly.
|
This is a good point, as it is probably the source of much of the community’s
anger. We are paying a premium for quality. Quality in manufacture, Quality in
Design, and Quality in educational value. That is what a toy is supposed to be,
really, an educational aid for children. Otherwise we are just providing them
with too much leisure. :)
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Sorry I don’t see any desperation and where do they say children are
stupid and colorblind?
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To quote the text from Lego Billund: “...the colour variation
does not play an important role to children...”. OK, admittedly, they
did not write that kids are stupid or colourblind. But they act as if
they were.
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Its not that kids are stupid, or colorblind. Its that it isn’t important to
them. A lot of kids don’t have the luxury of getting more than a tin can full
of bricks, so they naturally build without color in mind. Even besides that,
kids are not expert modellers. They might mix red and blue in the same model --
right next to each other! (That can give you a headache.)
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Ok, so 165 employees in customer service, TLC’s active support and
participation in fan created events and a dedicated team in community
development is “active disinterest”
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There are different levels of customer contact.
There are the call centers who take care of minor problems like the
increasing number of complains about missing or damaged pieces. This is
ok, as mistakes and accidents can happen with any product, and they have
to take care of this anyway. Their big problem is that they are getting
worse at the moment: people who contacted Lego support about the knight
bus have been replied to with standard letters about the grey and brown
colour change. Go figure.
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So, I think you are generalizing here without any actual data. As I said in the
post starting the thread, no one had called Lego Consumer Affairs about this
problem. My experience was very positive. They were not only trying to help,
they admitted that it looked odd to them. No one from CA has mentioned the new
greys in relation to this issue. Sure, we got the variance was within tolerance
explanation, but what do you expect? The world isn’t perfect, at least they are
trying.
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This support and participation in fan created events has happened twice
in Europe so far (IIRC), and the one event I had the chance to
participate did not really yield that much. They put up some
Winni-The-Poo and other figurines for free, the had a building table for
the kids and a room for themselves where they exhibited a few of the
current sets. Yes, there was a Q&A that did help as much as discussing
with Jake (“I can’t talk about it”, “You’ll love it” and “I don’t
know” were the predominant answers). If I take into account that the
whole rest of the event was done, managed and paid by fans and visitors,
they had a big case of dirt cheap advertising with all that. In total,
the event support happens - as far as I can derive from the net - more
or less exclusively in the US, anyway.
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Look. Lego doesn’t have to do anything with community development. In a very
real sense, they could just make their product and not get actively involved
with our events, and to some that may seem to be a safer path. Sure, they
should listen to our complaints--that is good business. They should also listen
to our suggestions--that is good market research. But they could do that
silently enough, reading Lugnet posts and such, with out engaging us in
conversation.
Your ire is just making the case for those that beleive they should not get
involved. Everything that they try to do is looked upon as done poorly by
people like you. The fact that they have done anything at all should be
praised! Maybe you don’t get to personally benefit from some of the things the
company does for the community. That doesn’t mean they don’t want you to
benefit.. but they have to make some economic decisions, too. To mee it sounds
petty and jealous for you to complain that they don’t serve you enough.
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And for community development - even those community developers have to
admit that their stand within the company is so weak that it is better
to contact the call centers about the problems that irk us. We were
lucky to do a bulk order at Lego last spring via Community Development.
But: The bricks have been paid for somewhere last summer, and i’m still
waiting for the last bricks (no, nothing exotic, just a few hundred red
slopes 45 2x2 double convex in red). Anything else of the job seems to
be a kind of company spokesperson stuff. The new guy in Europe for
example has so far only posted translations of Jakes Lugnet postings,
and has joined the chat a few times. Yes, he is new, but so far his
visibility is extremely low. Even some of the more patient members have
raised the question whether he was only hired as a translator. I
sincerely hope that he gets better than that in the future.
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I think if Jake’s stand within the company were weak, then he would have been
fired long ago. The fact is there are people in the company who value his
opinion. There are also, I am sure, people who disagree with him and the role
of community development. He has to constantly convince them that we are worth
listening to, and it seems that he is winning them over--though slowly. What
can you expect in such a short time. People are fond of saying how long Lego
has been making light grey--30 years. But in that time they have only have a
community development manager for what, 2? In fact, this community was tiny
just before 1999 when Lugnet and Star Wars Lego were starting this explosion of
online interest in lego.
Give them time. Take a deep breath. They are trying to learn, but don’t expect
change to happen so quickly. Big organizations take a long time to change.
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Until now, the CD persons only started to react when the noise went up
considerabely, but - as Jake admitted - way too late to change anything.
And their “Great Achievements” with legend sets and similar were (IMHO)
not that impressive, either.
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Well, IMHO your dead wrong. The legends are awesome. it is just what everyone
here is crying for.. bring back the sets of the 80’s and early 90’s. Well, they
are doing it. Maybe they didn’t bring back your favorite set, yet. Again,
this sounds petty.
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You have to explain what the term “active interest” would be then.
|
Well, so far I have not seen CD reactions to the knight bus problem or
the other quality issues that came up in the recent months like the
question about different height of plates, and such. This is one
of the areas where they should be way more active. Maybe Jakes “Top
Secret” project is something that is intended to really help us, but the
way he communicated it simply sucks, and the outcome is undetermined.
What I expect from a community contact person is proactive communcation
and action, i.e. when people started to discuss about the knight bus
problem, and it became an issue that was not limited to a few sets, I
would expect such a contact to respond to this, even if it is only a
note along the lines of “OK, I noticed that you see this as a problem,
I’ll see what the stuff is all about.”. Jake or whoever could easily
order such a set internally and see that the problem is real, find the
person responsible for these quality issues and talk to him/her. This
would be a prime example of “active interest”. This did not happen.
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That would be above and beyond the call of duty. If we as a group were able to
do the following things, then we might deserve this kind of attention: -
Agree, as a group, on how we feel about lego policies - Act, as a group, in a
consistent way with respect to buying - Purchase in the tens of millions of
lego sets each year
As it is, we’re getting darn near close to this kind of attention, and while I
believe that we may be more than 5-10% of Lego’s market, that still doesn’t put
us on par with Target and Walmart, who I am sure, get a lot of attention. Hey,
even local toy stores haven’t gotten the kind of attention we have gotten from
Lego (last I knew). So, I think your asking for a bit much.
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Agreed they have made great stuff in the past, not like those crappy
Santa Fe trains, UCS sets, sculptures and Designer sets they make
now... right..
|
Not that I’m really impressed by them. There have been the two
outstanding sets so far (Siskinds Smithy and those Santa Fe waggons,
both AFOL designs, not from Lego!),
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So you blame lego for taking a risk and using the community for designs? This
is in poor taste. They really did this in order to work with the community
actively. I see no other reason for it, especially since they have thier own
design team. They could have produced Santa Fe train cars or a blacksmith shop
without paying to use the MOC designs. And sure, these were great sellers for
Lego Direct, but the fact that they made some money off of it (and who knows if
they recouped thier costs on these projects--even if they sold a bunch)
shouldn’t justify you criticizing them for doing it. Especially when what you
want is more active involvement from them!
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and a lot of unsolved quality issues
with the sets (bending parts, bad engineering, non-adhering stickers,
and more). Nontheless, I was talking about those sets that can actually
be bought in real shops, and this is where it becomes a real horror
show. The new Knights Kingdom eases the pain about bley insofar as the
sets were not purchase-worthy anyway by their overall design. If that
design was even acceptable, I would have been torn between my urge to
collect the new castle sets and the decision not to buy bley sets.
Luckily, I’m not. The Lego world police state sets is nothing I would
buy for my kid for paedagigical reasons from the very beginning.
Bionicle ist the same, a trading card ripoff put in plastic.
The only big plus so far (although I don’t know if this was due to
community development or not) are the PAB shops, even though their
selection and pricing is more or less abysmal.
Yours, Christian
PS: Yes, I know I’m getting emotional about all this. Both the
companies’ attitude and Jakes way of communicating “great new things”
are really getting on my nerves recently. I promise to go on holidays in
two weeks time and won’t bother you for some days.
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Oh, go and relax, and try and get a more positive attitude. Are you in the
hobby to complain? Probably not. So try not to let these things stress you
out.
-Alfred
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In lugnet.color, Douglas R. Clark wrote:
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snip lots of good stuff
Thanks for the info and taking the time to post this.
I put together mine yesterday night and I was very upset at the contrast
of pieces. As for the story, I don’t really buy that considering that
the same part is in 2 different shades.
I might have to see what Lego can do for me. However, I will only
“trade my knight bus in” for one that is ok. If they can’t replace mine
then I’ll make due with the messed up one that I have.
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Here is where I have an issue about the moaning and groaning that goes on
about the color issues witht the Knight Bus (and Lego color issues in
general). Everyone who is really upset and feels that the color variations
are not acceptable (even though Lego thinks they are) should return the set
as defective and demand that they receive a refund. “Making due” with any
substandard product is not acceptable because it only encourages the company
in question to continue lowering its quality standards.
Maybe if enough people call and complain or if Lego happens to read enough
negative reviews of this product on Lugnet, they might do something... but
most likely they won’t if their bottom line is not significantly affected.
As long as we consumers continue to accept the declining quality of lego
product (i.e. continue buying their product), the company will have no
incentive to fix their problems. If enough Knight Bus sets get returned with
“discolored pieces” as the reason stated for the return or if sales of that
set tank, then TLC might wake up and tighten up their color deviation
standards.
Do I hate Lego? NO. I want Lego to be sucessful as any other AFOL. However,
I’m also not a diehard brand purist. I refuse to spend my hard-earned
disposable income on sub-standard product. The day that Lego’s quality sinks
consistently below the quality of Megablocks (or any other clone) is they day
I start buying clone brands.
Lego is not the only hobby/interest I have. Not only are they competing
against clone brands, they are competing against a whole host of other
products & intresets for my consumer dollars. I won’t be buying this set
until TLC releases a batch where the color problem has been fixed. I’ve got
other things to spend $30 on. If I buy any other set that does not meet my
expectations, I will give CA a chance to make things right. If CA does not
make things right, then the product will be returned.
If I were to try to make an analogy, it would be “people who don’t vote
shouldn’t complain about politics/president/etc”. We are voting with our
dollars. If the product does not meet your expectations, then return it or
don’t buy it in the first place.
just some thoughts,
drc
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Here, Here!
Thats just what I was trying to get across with my post. :)
-Alfred
Now these are some added lines because Lugnet feels my comment was too short to
be accepted. Its silly really, cause I just wanted to say, hey I agree.
-me
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In lugnet.color, Thomas Stangl wrote:
> Well, sure, others may not need such a discount for major purchases.
>
> But {for me}, it's got to be 75% off before I buy my "normal" amount.
>
> Lar - get some sleep, or read more carefully. You are glossing over posts and missing key
> points (nowhere did I say it would have to be 75% off for {everyone} to get interested).
>
>
>
>
> Yet I don't think you'll prove me wrong about listing the purple on BL - unless someone
> matches each shade to a Pantone sheet, then lends the Pantone reference sheet to ANY buyer
> before buying, there isn't going to be a way to note what color of purple you are {truly}
> buying when it comes to the first batch of 4755s (assuming they actually do fix it on
> later batches).
There's not more than 3 or 4 shades. Someone will figure out how to do this and
make money at it. Personally I sort of don't care what color I get as long as I
get teh same color for everything I buy. So buy 10 buses, put it into unsorted
lots sorted by color and away you go.
I'm not glossing over your points, nor am I missing them. You just think I am.
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