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In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Jeremy Vandivere wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> I just started getting interested in lego modeling in MLcad, and I am
> really enjoying it. I am having a little trouble with it though..maybe
> you can help me out...
>
> I have placed a part (plate 1x2) into the work area, and I need to
> rotate it along the X axis. in the 'enter position and rotation' dialog,
> it says the angle is already 90 degrees. this is referring the the 90
> degrees I had to rotate it to get it pointed long ways instead of
> sideways. (can you tell I'm new?)
>
> Basically a breakdown/tutorial of the enter position & rotation dialog
> would be greatly helpful. Does anyone know where I might find such a thing?
>
> Thanks for your help!
> --Jeremy
>
> PS: playing with this program has prompted me to buy my first real lego
> set in years. Anyone know when spider-man parts will be added to the
> parts list? :)
What you're trying to do is define a rotation vector, which can also be
explained as a "custom-oriented axis". Its origin is always 0,0,0 and it will
extend in the direction set by the XYZ coordinates.
This way of working is very powerful, meaning it can take very few actions to
achieve complex rotations. But it can get tricky to figure out all the maths
(rotation matrices are even more extreme in both counts).
One thing that you can try is unchecking the "Absolute" (values) checkbox at the
bottom of the dialog. That will enable you to do it step by step.
For instance, in your case it seems like you have the following XYZ value to
define the rotation vector (0,1,0) and 90 as the rotation angle.
So that is a 90-degree rotation across a custom axis that passes 0,0,0 and 0,1,0
(yep, that "custom axis" is in the same palce that the Y axis).
Now, uncheck "absolute". set the rotation vector values to 1,0,0 and type in the
angle that you want for the roof slopes rotation. That will rotate them in the x
axis.
Note: I don't remember and I can't look into this right now, but the whole 0,0,0
origin might mean that you have to place your parts in the world origin (0,0,0)
to perform the rotation and then move them backl to where they belong.
I hope this helps. In the book "Lego Software Powertools", we included an
illustrated description of this and the rotation matrices process. Also, the
POVray help file includes a very short but good description of rotation
matrices.
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In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Jeremy Vandivere wrote:
> Thanks for the prompt reply. :)
>
> I am aware of the rotate buttons, and have been using them allot. I even
> reset the button for the axis I'm working with to step 1 instead of 15,
> to try and get it lined up. It's still not working. :)
>
> To give you an idea....I'll show you the model I'm building...
>
> http://library.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=1473
>
> I built this model at a friends house a couple of years ago. I noticed
> it at brickshelf, and decided I could try to model it in MLCad.
> My first mistake was starting off in the fine grid mode. after getting
> 80% built, and having to exactly position each piece..I realized I could
> highlight the whole thing and snap to the large grid. Viola...a little
> extra lining things up, and it was all fine....
>
> Then I got to the roof sections. I figured out that an angle of '53'
> will line the red pieces up with the black roof struts, (in step 16 and
> 17) however trying to get the black pieces lined up with that has been
> seemingly impossible. I realize now I probably would have been better
> off to assemble the roof pieces horizontally then rotate the whole thing
> to fit the struts...but I didn't do it like that.
Well I'd recommend doing it that way, as it is MUCH easier. The problem moving
pieces at strange angles is that the default movement is in x, y or z direction
- not in the direction that they are rotated.
Remember also that you don't have to add parts in the order you want them to
appear in the file - you can drag and drop them in the parts list window to
change the order after you're finished placing them.
Also, submodels give you yet another way of doing tricky things like this -
check out the Multipart menu.
> so now I'm trying to figure out how to read the DAT file. I want to know
> what each of those segments are in the position and rotation sections. I
> think if I can learn that, then the 'enter position and rotation dialog'
> will be old hat.
Well yes and no - the specification is here
http://www.ldraw.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=45 but
editing the file manually is not something that is particularly easy - I have
done it on occasion (mostly when authoring parts) but it's rarely the easiest
way to do things.
ROSCO
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In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Jeremy Vandivere wrote:
> Thanks for the prompt reply. :)
>
> I am aware of the rotate buttons, and have been using them allot. I even
> reset the button for the axis I'm working with to step 1 instead of 15,
> to try and get it lined up. It's still not working. :)
I'm not sure what you're saying here, but I'll take a stab at it anyways. If
you highlight a piece that you placed earlier in the list, before you started
messing with angles, and then add your new piece there, it'll take it's
rotational geometry and positioning grid from that piece. You can then
click/drag that part entry in the text list to the step where you want it added,
and it will keep its correct rotational geometry and positioning grid, and it
will then provide the default numbers for the next part you place after it.
> To give you an idea....I'll show you the model I'm building...
>
> http://library.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=1473
>
> I built this model at a friends house a couple of years ago. I noticed
> it at brickshelf, and decided I could try to model it in MLCad.
> My first mistake was starting off in the fine grid mode.
That really depends on how you'll be building. I've found that when you start
rotating bricks in odd directions for SNOT construction, later parts never line
up correctly unless you're using the fine-tune grid. 300% magnification quickly
becomes your friend.
> after getting 80% built, and having to exactly position each piece..I
> realized I could highlight the whole thing and snap to the large grid.
> Viola...a little extra lining things up, and it was all fine....
For something like that, you'll probably be better off placing each brick on the
screen in the order shown in the instructions, but leave stuff like the ladder
off to the side until you've moved past it a few steps and then go back and
reposition it. Every piece you place takes its starting point geometry from the
previous piece, so if you flip a part 22.5 degrees in one direction, flip it
22.5 degrees in an perpendicular direction, slide it one stud in each axis, and
then straighten it back up, it won't match the previous parts exactly, and
neither will any piece that you add directly behind it. In the Position field
in the parts list, each whole unit represents one LEGO Unit (the side faces on a
1x1 brick are 5LU wide and 6LU tall, and studs are about 1LU tall), and if you
start messing around with non-90 degree angles, you'll end up with parts that
aren't in X.000/Y.000/Z.000 coordinates. Since the fine-tune grid only moves it
1LU in any given direction, you'll never get rid of a fractional position unless
you can exactly retrace the adjustments that got you there, or you go in and
manually tweak the numbers.
> Then I got to the roof sections. I figured out that an angle of '53'
> will line the red pieces up with the black roof struts, (in step 16 and
> 17) however trying to get the black pieces lined up with that has been
> seemingly impossible. I realize now I probably would have been better
> off to assemble the roof pieces horizontally then rotate the whole thing
> to fit the struts...but I didn't do it like that.
Yeah, I figured that out when trying to assemble the legs for my recent Kumo
assassination spider. I had to delete all of the pieces I'd added after
starting them because they wouldn't ever line up with the original grid. What I
ended up doing instead was building the rest of the model first, and then
assembling the legs flat, pivoting entire sections into place, and then once the
legs were all built correctly, positioning them on the model (though the parts
are split up so that each leg only gets one piece per step).
> Also...anyone know if that ladder piece found in step 10 exists?
Other Parts/B/Bar 7 x 3 with Double Clips.
> so now I'm trying to figure out how to read the DAT file. I want to know
> what each of those segments are in the position and rotation sections. I
> think if I can learn that, then the 'enter position and rotation dialog'
> will be old hat.
Now that I can't help you with. I've figured out how to tweak the angle on a
single piece with a single axis of non-perpendicular rotation by editing the
actual LDR file, but it doesn't help for multi-part adjustments or for parts
that are tipped in two or three axes. And it doesn't guarantee that you'll be
able to place it correctly afterwards.
> Again, thanks to you all for your quick responses. Looks like this is
> the place to go to get help :)
To be fair, I just downloaded my copy last week, so I'm working my way through
some of the same problems myself (I hadn't even found the manual
movement/rotation feature yet).
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Thanks for the prompt reply. :)
I am aware of the rotate buttons, and have been using them allot. I even
reset the button for the axis I'm working with to step 1 instead of 15,
to try and get it lined up. It's still not working. :)
To give you an idea....I'll show you the model I'm building...
http://library.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=1473
I built this model at a friends house a couple of years ago. I noticed
it at brickshelf, and decided I could try to model it in MLCad.
My first mistake was starting off in the fine grid mode. after getting
80% built, and having to exactly position each piece..I realized I could
highlight the whole thing and snap to the large grid. Viola...a little
extra lining things up, and it was all fine....
Then I got to the roof sections. I figured out that an angle of '53'
will line the red pieces up with the black roof struts, (in step 16 and
17) however trying to get the black pieces lined up with that has been
seemingly impossible. I realize now I probably would have been better
off to assemble the roof pieces horizontally then rotate the whole thing
to fit the struts...but I didn't do it like that.
Also...anyone know if that ladder piece found in step 10 exists?
so now I'm trying to figure out how to read the DAT file. I want to know
what each of those segments are in the position and rotation sections. I
think if I can learn that, then the 'enter position and rotation dialog'
will be old hat.
Again, thanks to you all for your quick responses. Looks like this is
the place to go to get help :)
--Jeremy
Purple Dave wrote:
> In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Jeremy Vandivere wrote:
>
> > I have placed a part (plate 1x2) into the work area, and I need to
> > rotate it along the X axis. in the 'enter position and rotation' dialog,
> > it says the angle is already 90 degrees. this is referring the the 90
> > degrees I had to rotate it to get it pointed long ways instead of
> > sideways. (can you tell I'm new?)
>
>
> If you're using MLcad, there should be a toolbar with six circular arrow buttons
> in it. Those arrow bottons will rotate the part along all three axes. The
> arrows are modeled according to the top-view (default lower left frame), where
> the left pair of arrows will roll it along a horizontal axis, the right pair
> will rotate it on a vertical axis, and the middle pair will spin it flat on the
> screen. Just make sure you have the right part selected before you start
> hitting the rotate buttons.
>
>
> > PS: playing with this program has prompted me to buy my first real lego
> > set in years. Anyone know when spider-man parts will be added to the
> > parts list? :)
>
>
> It's all a matter of when someone wants it bad enough to program it in. There's
> a noticable shortage of painted parts compared to what has been officially
> released, even though the shapes are already there, and minifigs are no
> exception. I get the idea that most of the part designers are interested in
> building new shapes instead of adding various skins to them.
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At 01:20 AM 7/28/2004 +0000, Purple Dave wrote:
> In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Jeremy Vandivere wrote:
> > I have placed a part (plate 1x2) into the work area, and I need to
> > rotate it along the X axis. in the 'enter position and rotation' dialog,
> > it says the angle is already 90 degrees. this is referring the the 90
> > degrees I had to rotate it to get it pointed long ways instead of
> > sideways. (can you tell I'm new?)
>
> If you're using MLcad, there should be a toolbar with six circular arrow
> buttons
> in it. Those arrow bottons will rotate the part along all three axes. The
> arrows are modeled according to the top-view (default lower left frame), where
> the left pair of arrows will roll it along a horizontal axis, the right pair
> will rotate it on a vertical axis, and the middle pair will spin it flat
> on the
> screen. Just make sure you have the right part selected before you start
> hitting the rotate buttons.
There are also keyboard shortcuts for those operations.
Rotate around Y axis: 'A' and Ctrl+right or left arrows
Rotate around X axis: Ctrl+up or down arrrows
Rotate aournd Z azis: Ctrl+'home' or 'end'
--Ryan
http://users.ifriendly.com/fourfarrs1
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In lugnet.cad.mlcad, David Laswell wrote:
> It's all a matter of when someone wants it bad enough to program it in. There's
> a noticable shortage of painted parts compared to what has been officially
> released, even though the shapes are already there, and minifigs are no
> exception. I get the idea that most of the part designers are interested in
> building new shapes instead of adding various skins to them.
That and the fact that doing patterns well is much more challenging, especially
on curved surfaces.
-Orion
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In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Jeremy Vandivere wrote:
> I have placed a part (plate 1x2) into the work area, and I need to
> rotate it along the X axis. in the 'enter position and rotation' dialog,
> it says the angle is already 90 degrees. this is referring the the 90
> degrees I had to rotate it to get it pointed long ways instead of
> sideways. (can you tell I'm new?)
If you're using MLcad, there should be a toolbar with six circular arrow buttons
in it. Those arrow bottons will rotate the part along all three axes. The
arrows are modeled according to the top-view (default lower left frame), where
the left pair of arrows will roll it along a horizontal axis, the right pair
will rotate it on a vertical axis, and the middle pair will spin it flat on the
screen. Just make sure you have the right part selected before you start
hitting the rotate buttons.
> PS: playing with this program has prompted me to buy my first real lego
> set in years. Anyone know when spider-man parts will be added to the
> parts list? :)
It's all a matter of when someone wants it bad enough to program it in. There's
a noticable shortage of painted parts compared to what has been officially
released, even though the shapes are already there, and minifigs are no
exception. I get the idea that most of the part designers are interested in
building new shapes instead of adding various skins to them.
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Hi everyone,
I just started getting interested in lego modeling in MLcad, and I am
really enjoying it. I am having a little trouble with it though..maybe
you can help me out...
I have placed a part (plate 1x2) into the work area, and I need to
rotate it along the X axis. in the 'enter position and rotation' dialog,
it says the angle is already 90 degrees. this is referring the the 90
degrees I had to rotate it to get it pointed long ways instead of
sideways. (can you tell I'm new?)
Basically a breakdown/tutorial of the enter position & rotation dialog
would be greatly helpful. Does anyone know where I might find such a thing?
Thanks for your help!
--Jeremy
PS: playing with this program has prompted me to buy my first real lego
set in years. Anyone know when spider-man parts will be added to the
parts list? :)
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Purple Dave wrote:
> In lugnet.cad, Darrell Urbien wrote:
> > Aack! This would've been a nice part to
> > <http://news.lugnet.com/cad/?n=11732 3D Scan>.
>
> Hmm, yes it would have. So would other parts with weird curvy
> surfaces like the flame/seaweed piece (considering the fact that the
> first dragon's body parts have all been completed, I'm surprised that
> I can't find that part anywhere).
Unfortunately I haven't worked on the other two dragon body parts the last
months. The head-details takes me to trouble. nad then there is only the
outer hull. See here:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=41727
I would be glad, if anybody else wants to complete the parts.
CU Bernd
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In lugnet.cad, Corey Sanders wrote:
> I think I beat you to that. :)
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=477270
Yeah, well, plenty of people might have. But it's all about having your own
implimentation. I'm the kind of person that would reinvent the wheel just to say
"hey, that wheel's mine! I made it myself!"
Seriously, though, I've always wanted to build my own versions of the Trek
ships; In fact, have you seen the Scorpion from Nemesis? That'd look great
LDrawn.
As of right now, I don't have any Star Trek ships done right now, but I've got
plans going. Don't worry, you'll know when I do. :)
Doug Burkhalter
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In lugnet.cad, David Laswell wrote:
> In lugnet.cad, Darrell Urbien wrote:
> > Aack! This would've been a nice part to http://news.lugnet.com/cad/?n=11732
> > 3D Scan.
>
> Hmm, yes it would have. So would other parts with weird curvy surfaces like
> the flame/seaweed piece (considering the fact that the first dragon's body
> parts have all been completed, I'm surprised that I can't find that part
> anywhere).
That one is under "Minifig Flame"
-Orion
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In lugnet.cad, Darrell Urbien wrote:
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Aack! This would’ve been a nice part to 3D Scan.
|
Hmm, yes it would have. So would other parts with weird curvy surfaces like the
flame/seaweed piece (considering the fact that the first dragon’s body parts
have all been completed, I’m surprised that I can’t find that part anywhere).
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I could try to have one of my students take a stab at it in 3DStudio or
Rhino, though. If I can get ahold of one to look at I’ll put the part on my
list of “requests”.
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I doubt you’ll find it in stores anymore, but Bricklink prices are pretty
reasonable, as long as you’re not going after the white ones.
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In lugnet.cad, David Laswell wrote:
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3. And finally, this is a long shot, but I’ve got to ask anyways...does
anyone have any plans to make a DAT file for the
Ninja wrap?
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Aack! This would’ve been a nice part to 3D
Scan. But short of FedExing the part to me at my hotel (as I don’t have one on
hand) that’s probably not gonna happen..
I could try to have one of my students take a stab at it in 3DStudio or Rhino,
though. If I can get ahold of one to look at I’ll put the part on my list of
“requests”.
(I realize no one will really take my offer to model parts digitally seriously
until I produce some DAT results... Hey, I’m working on it!!)
Darrell
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I downloaded copies of LDraw and MLcad a few days ago, and I’ve been building
digital versions of a few of my models, but I ran into a couple of problems:
1. Using MLcad, I couldn’t get this
piece to close flush to this piece.
There was either a little gap at the top (just enough to be annoying), or a huge
gap at the bottom (enough to really stand out). I haven’t tried out any of the
other interfaces, but I juggled the numbers by hand a bit, and I was able to
come up with a clean match after about 4 tries. If anyone is interested in
borrowing the numbers, here’s the DAT file:
0 ROTATION CENTER 0 0 0 1 “Custom”
0 ROTATION CONFIG 0 0
1 0 -39 -48 -4 0 0 1 0 1 0 -1 0 0 30200.DAT
1 57 -76 -121 -5 0 0.686637 -0.727 0 0.727 0.686637 1 0 0 2418B.DAT
0
2. While I was building my latest model, I discovered that part
#2463 has portions inside the lower
corners that aren’t shading with the rest of the part. I noticed this because
when I attached it to a different colored part, I could see the studs through
the gaps on the outside of the base, but I couldn’t on the model (yes, I checked
to make sure the studs were lined up correctly). If you look at this from
either outside angle, you can see that the portions of the yellow studs that are
sticking up inside of the part are still visible, but there’s a thin black line
intersecting them, which is where the interior panel isn’t shading with the rest
of it. Is that intentional?
0 ROTATION CENTER 0 0 0 1 “Custom”
0 ROTATION CONFIG 0 0
1 0 4.477 -131.572 -9 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 2463.DAT
1 14 -35.522 -106 1.477 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 3005.DAT
1 14 4.478 -106 -38.523 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 3005.DAT
0
3. And finally, this is a long shot, but I’ve got to ask anyways...does anyone
have any plans to make a DAT file for the Ninja wrap?
If you’re only replying to part of this, please FUT only to the appropriate
groups.
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Dear folks!
As of today I have started to collect pieces for my model of the Deep Space
9 station from the same named Startrek series. I created this model way back
completely digitally in MLCad, but I am attempting to make it for real! The
model is featured on my Brickshelf account
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?m=sjaacko
So far I have sorted out many parts I own from my own collection to built it
and to see what I need.
I got the "space shuttle" wings and some other common parts I did not own.
I will keep you posted on the progress!
Jaco
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In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.announce, Willy Tschager wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > generating hoses, chains and electical cabels has never been easier - even for
> > people with little CAD experience. Check out this tutorial about MLCad's newest
> > feature and go down to the nuts and bolts of the prog:
> >
> > www.holly-wood.it
> >
> > "Synth" well!
>
> Slick presentation, great work. One nit, you may want to mention what versions
> of the software this tutorial prereqs. Also is there an order dependency on
> which one has to be installed first?
good point. I'll fix it with the next site update. anyway to give a short answer
now: mlcad 3.11, lsynth 2.0, no specific order needed, but it is wise to install
mlcad first to spot errors with the part-library.
> I agree with Kevin, you rock! Thanks for sharing!
:-)))
w.
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In lugnet.cad.mlcad, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> In lugnet.announce, Willy Tschager wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > generating hoses, chains and electical cabels has never been easier - even for
> > people with little CAD experience. Check out this tutorial about MLCad's newest
> > feature and go down to the nuts and bolts of the prog:
> >
> > www.holly-wood.it
> >
> > "Synth" well!
>
> Willy,
> THanks so much for this tutorial. It is awesome that you put the work into
> it. Greatly appreciated.
I'm glad you like it! praise from the code-god itself saves my day :-)))
> >
> > w.
>
> Kevin
w.
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In lugnet.announce, Willy Tschager wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> generating hoses, chains and electical cabels has never been easier - even for
> people with little CAD experience. Check out this tutorial about MLCad's newest
> feature and go down to the nuts and bolts of the prog:
>
> www.holly-wood.it
>
> "Synth" well!
Slick presentation, great work. One nit, you may want to mention what versions
of the software this tutorial prereqs. Also is there an order dependency on
which one has to be installed first?
I agree with Kevin, you rock! Thanks for sharing!
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In lugnet.announce, Willy Tschager wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> generating hoses, chains and electical cabels has never been easier - even for
> people with little CAD experience. Check out this tutorial about MLCad's newest
> feature and go down to the nuts and bolts of the prog:
>
> www.holly-wood.it
>
> "Synth" well!
Willy,
THanks so much for this tutorial. It is awesome that you put the work into
it. Greatly appreciated.
>
> w.
Kevin
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