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In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Derek Raycraft wrote:
> None of those laptops even met the minimum requirements of Java, and
> don't come close to meeting the minimum requirements of the majority of
> software these days. Both you and I knew it was a crap shoot going in
> that they would work. Plus who uses serial ports anymore. We were
> trying to make an antiquated piece of hardware work on antiquated
> computers with modern software. Sorry but far from a valid example.
The two laptops I brought over were Thinkpad T23's which are 1.14Ghz P3Mobiles
with 256MB of RAM each. If that's not enough for Java, I don't know what is.
In case my memory serves me incorrectly, at worst, they were T21's, which are
800Mhz P3 Mobiles.
The problem with such a complaint is that the developer always argues the
existing deployment base is outdated, while the market reality is that very few
people will have brand new 2.8Ghz PCs with 1GB of RAM. The market will always
struggle to keep up and you can't demand that everyone upgrade. It's even worse
with Macintoshes, due to Apple's performance gap (real or imagined) and the fact
Mac users tend to keep their hardware for longer.
As for who uses the serial port....well, in the Lego context I can think
of...Dacta Control Lab, the Mindstorms IR tower, CyberMaster's RF tower, hrm,
what else...Spybotics...jesus, that's half the frickin product line, isn't it...
> I would not consider the capture interface the core of VisionCommand.
> It's only a small aspect of that piece of software. In my experience
> the UI is often the most complex and time consuming piece of a project
> to produce. Especially when they make it all flashy like Lego likes to
> do. This stuff is easily made cross platform. Having to create
> separate interfaces to the video capture infrastructure would be no big
> deal by comparison.
First, except for corporate applications, Java UI's, from this former UI
designer's perspective, are absolute crap. They provide poor feedback and break
UI consistency conventions with the OS. I honestly can't see anyone developing
a good crossplatform UI, especially for children, in Java. Ugh.
Second, in my opinion, the hard part of VisionCommand is the fact it has to
capture, process and act on USB video streams. If you feel it's easy to code
for completely different capture architectures and act on that data, well, I'm
no programmer. You're probably right then. All I have to support this is a
beta trial of a nonlinear editing system that I worked on, where they never
solved QT versus VFW architectural and performance issues. Strangely enough,
the package was also written in...you guessed it...Java. That and using the
first five versions of Premiere for Windows, another QT ported video
application, dog slow and unresponsive.
> This is one area I'm quite willing to except. A large number of Games
> require very tight integration with hardware to run effectively. And
> your point about graphics is very true. However it not that games
> aren't written to be cross platform. The number of linux servers that
> are produced counters this point. But as you say the one thing they are
> missing is the graphics engine.
Well, your original complaint was about Lego products on the Macintosh. Lego's
computer based products so far have broken into:
-Mindstorms like devices (which need serial, USB)
-Games like Lego Island (which need DX or some sort of graphics engine)
The former, you've already written off as inconsequential, the latter you agree
to. So really, the cross platform issue in the Lego context is nontrivial.
We're not porting some database front end here for accountants...the Lego
products hit the one thing cross platform projects always get snagged on:
Hardware.
> The great thing about supporting Macs is there isn't the hardware or OS
> diversity there is with Windows.
I'll give you that. Windows hardware support is infuriating largely because
everyone buys poorly assembled clones made by some guy in a basement somewhere.
The worst offenders are the sub-par Taiwanese vendors who build generic chipsets
with flaky driver support.
On the other hand, Apple has used a wide variety of chipsets, bridges, plus
there's the fact a lot of Lego's target audience (schools and children) may
still be on OS7-9 machines, even when you rule out M68K series machines. They
may all have a big Apple badge on the front, but underneath, there's still
nVidia and ATI graphics chips, there's the same compatibility problems.
The worst part of it is that this stuff is obfuscated: Apple makes it very difficult to figure out what you have while each machine has it's own quirks. Is that a Wallstreet G3, or a Pismo G3 Powerbook? A 12" G3 iBook from 2001? Oh, those overheat. But not the 12" G3 iBook from 2002 with two USB ports...those are better. Same label, more grief for the troubleshooter.
But yes, the PC hardware issue is a big one. That's more of a "Why you should
own a Mac" argument though.
> > Then you've got to support the thing once it hits market. Which means call
> > centers which have Mac AND PC experience. Maintaining a pool of Macintosh
> > support operators with additional training.
>
> Separate training, not additional training.
So when I staff my call center, and no one calls with Mac problems, I should
keep these staff sitting around idle while there are other inbound calls? I
don't think you've had the pleasure of supporting a product.
> Think about it 5% of the market is a hell of a lot of people. There is
> money out there to be had.
> However I did manage to get you to wine about how hard cross platform
> development is. :-)
No, I'm just offering a slice of reality to the typical fanatic or technically
minded, who never seem to realize that there are much more difficult issues to
answer than the most basic technical concerns. People who go off and claim that
5% of the market is a lot of people, without backing it with real numbers.
People who would demand Mac support without understanding the cost of
development or support staff. Unless you're willing to support it with a
business case, my general answer to Mac and Linux users is to shut up and live
with it. It's the same as those who complained about grey colour changes or
that Lego doesn't care about AFOLs as a market segment.
AFOLs are less than 5%...that sounds about the same...
Complaining without anything substantial to support it, now THAT'S whining.
Calum
PS-I haven't flamed someone about platform issues since I owned an Amiga.
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: iMac
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| (...) Oh, forgot about trying out those laptops. But then the biggest problem we had with those was freeing up the serial port from multiple levels of security, networking and anti-virus software that was installed on them. I'm surprised anyone (...) (20 years ago, 21-Oct-04, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: iMac
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| (...) I've also seen it from personal experience. We support software on not 1 or 2 different platforms, but 10-15 different platforms. (...) There are fewer and fewer of this difference these days. It's aways getting better. (...) None of those (...) (20 years ago, 20-Oct-04, to lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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