 | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | I guess this was in response to me, though I'm not exactly sure how. I hate to risk trying to connect it to the topic before which was based on rights and responsibilites since that doesn't seem to be the main point. So I'll take an approach (...) (24 years ago, 30-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Chris Maddison
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| | | | | (...) to (...) Well, it's not in response to anyone; I've just been sitting back looking at the whole issue over animals and cruelty and the like develop, and I just decided to voice my opinions, on a somewhat related although different matter, if (...) (24 years ago, 30-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Hi again, I think that this will forever be our stumbling block. I presume that you base these theories on a holy text of some kind rather than observable phenomina? (Except, of course, the bit about the relationship between prey and predator (...) (24 years ago, 30-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Perhaps not some preordained purpose, but they do fill a role as prey, just as humans fill a role as (for instance, with thanks to George Carlin) the manufacturers of plastic. (...) Do you actually believe this? We're talking about deer, (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) I didn't know that George Carlin was crucial to the plastics industry. ;-) Absolutely. They are prey to wolves, people, etc. -- and they prey on vegitation (preferring my juvenile apple trees to all else, so it would seem). (...) I believe (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) I disagree. They are prey regardless of what they choose, but sometimes they are eaten and sometimes they are not. (...) But is it a "want"? Their hearts keep beating, but not because they want them to. (...) Ignoring for the moment that there (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) But it would seem then that you remove meaning from the term 'prey.' By what I think you're saying, all organisms are prey. If so, what point is there in using the term? (...) I think that eating in response to hunger is very different than (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) I think you're referring to my earlier comment about "being prey to bacteria," by which I was being (in retrospect) unclearly rhetorical. I would say that prey can be defined as an animal consumed by a predator, while a predator is an animal (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) they (...) So humans (at least Bangladeshis) are prey too? Because they are hunted sometimes by predators. How's this: In addition to being prey, deer are a great many other things, and I don't think that their happenstance role as prey in the (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Absolutely! Just as I would be prey if I slept unprotected on the veldt, and just as the poor guy a few weeks ago (in Canada? I can't remember) who was eaten by a bear. (...) Being prey doesn't preclude being other things, too. Many predators (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | | | | (...) Handled below... (...) That's assuming deer HAVE that complex of a longterm memory (as opposed to spacial memory maps of the best places to eat, and instinct for a certain breeding grounds they've never been to before). (...) Nope - that can (...) (24 years ago, 5-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) doesn't (...) season. (...) Absolutely. And I could be wrong. But in many ways it seems safer to assume similarity than difference. (...) ivy? (...) Agreed, but I'm not sure it's that simple. (...) Right. You're not going to change, and I'm (...) (24 years ago, 5-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | | | | (...) OK, I should have stated "giving SOME animals". I agree with the above, obviously some animals are quite intelligent. But I certainly don't put deer, fowl, or beef cattle in their ranks. (...) Bull. All rules can be broken (except some (...) (24 years ago, 5-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) obviously (...) beef (...) OK, my bad. I had been using the deer (even prior to your entry into the discussion) as an icon for the other animals in general. that was sloppy of me. I am willing to disucuss any given animal's capabilities (...) (24 years ago, 6-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Out of curiosity, how is this determined, other than by casual observation? And how broad a range of behaviors do the chickens exhibit? This would seem central to a useful discussion of chicken intelligence. By the way, is your use of (...) (24 years ago, 7-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) clearly (...) that (...) Hi, I'm out of town and this is likely to be my last access to the net until Monday or Tuesday, so I'm a bit behind. In backward order: It was not a subtle propoganda on my part, but now that it's pointed out, I think (...) (24 years ago, 9-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | | (...) Do you HONESTLY think human sex drive is the same as deer? Come on, now, really. Deer don't have recreational sex, humans do. While hormones CAN affect humans, humans can generally have/not have sex whenever they feel like it. (...) If I (...) (24 years ago, 5-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Well, that's not what I said, is it? At least not that it's exactly the same. I think that more paralells can be drawn between human and deer motivation than many people seem to think are valid. (...) Cite. (...) And do. All the time. Every (...) (24 years ago, 5-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | | (...) Show me a deer copulating outside of the hormone driven mating season. You won't find one, unless some researcher is playing with deer hormones (which points back to deer not having the control humans do). (...) Nowhere near the same way as (...) (24 years ago, 5-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) won't (...) back (...) OK, I guess I have two comments to this, but I want them to come after first noting that I agree with the general gist of this. One thing, is that we may have lucked into not being hormonally ruled WRT our mating habits. (...) (24 years ago, 6-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) I'm not sure of their exact evolutionary similarity, but the Bonobos chimps demonstrate a considerable sex drive and incorporate sexual play into their everyday social structure. In addition, several Victorian-era zoos found it unacceptable to (...) (24 years ago, 7-Aug-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Responsible Hunting (was Re: We are what we eat. Or is that "whom we eat?") —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | (...) <snip> (...) Heh!.. <snip> (...) Yes, and it's about killing for pleasure and enjoyment. (look at the quotes below) <snip> (...) <snip> (...) <snip> (...) <snip> (...) Yes, completely...:-) Selçuk (24 years ago, 31-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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