Subject:
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Re: Remember the Axis of Evil? [may offend]
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 9 Dec 2003 04:40:06 GMT
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Viewed:
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551 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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Regardless of the underlying political leanings of the public, I will admit
that Republicans (and far-Right Conservatives in particular) are much
better at controlling the language of public information and debate than
are the Democrats. That’s not an endorsement of Conservative policy, nor
is it a statement of support of Conservative methods (far from it!), but it
is a fact, regrettably, and must be dealt with as such.
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I’m not sure I agree that it’s fact. Putting aside the false one
dimensionality that you use to measure with, that is.
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Hmm. That’s a good point, except for the meta-fact that all arguments
inconsistent with mine are summarily fallacious.
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c /mine/Lar’s/ and we’re in agreement.
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I would assert that the Fox/Limbaugh/Moral Majority axis has gotten better
at articulating their views in the media of late but that does NOT mean that
they are *better at it* than the PETA/PFTAW/soft socialist axis are (there’s
that pesky one dimensionality again but bear with me)...
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Interesting. I’d submit that “betterness” can be assessed in terms of which
group is more effective at implementing actual changes favorable to its
position, rather than simply sprinkling its views over the national
consciousness.
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That’s precisely what I’m driving at!
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To this end, I suggest that Conservatives are better at
controlling public discourse than PETA.
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Perhaps currently they are noisier yes and more annoying, but more controlling?
Besides that runs counter to my argument, discourse apparent control doesn’t
matter as much as results do. And the modern liberals have well nigh on to 100
years of success in the US with their message with only somewhat of a backswing
lately.
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Another problem is that PETA, for example, is generally recognized as a
self-caricaturing fringe group,
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As is (at this point) Moral Majority... I tried to pick some serious and some
not so serious for each of the sets but welcome substitutions as long as they
fit the “traditional” definitions of L and C (which we both know are false
definitions)
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whereas Fox News is fairly widely regarded as
a legitimate news source.
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By whom? John Neal? Not by me.
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Additionally, I’m honestly not comfortable with the axes you propose. They
seem to reflect the system proposed here, the quiz
for which consists largely of “do you still beat your wife”-style questions.
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I used to like that quiz more than I do nowadays.
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The differences between the two main parties are not as small as I understand
you to believe.
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Small enough to be worrisome though, ne?
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Rather, the socialist message has permeated american discourse so thoroughly
for so long that many people hardly notice it is there any more, and the
media themselves (at least in some cases) don’t realise their
presupposition...
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Interesting again, but it’s a chicken-and-egg conundrum. You’re assuming
that “the socialist message” has pervaded American thought due to the efforts
of pro-socialist forces. One could likewise argue that “the socialist
message” has become so widespread because it resonates with the true desires
of the population.
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Go ahead and make that argument... I think you’ll have a tough time of it.
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I also contest the term “socialist” in this context, specifically because it
is a term intended to shape this discussion. The Liberalism that I favor is
not Socialism.
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The Liberalism *I* favor is *also* not Socialism... The term has been usurped.
And not in a “new” or “improved” way.
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Remember the Axis of Evil? [may offend]
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| (...) Ahem. Now listen, I do not watch television (1), and certainly not network news, much less Fox (I don't even have cable). But I'd say this about Fox: at least they admit that they are biased towards the right. The big three and CNN (...) (21 years ago, 9-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: Remember the Axis of Evil? [may offend]
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| (...) Lately? It can be fairly said that, in many ways, the South and its Conservative (by today's yardstick) agenda have won the Civil War. Quasi-covert institutionalized racism and rampant corporate cronyism are hardly the hallmarks of modern (...) (21 years ago, 9-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Remember the Axis of Evil? [may offend]
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| (...) Hmm. That's a good point, except for the meta-fact that all arguments inconsistent with mine are summarily fallacious. (...) Interesting. I'd submit that "betterness" can be assessed in terms of which group is more effective at implementing (...) (21 years ago, 8-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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