Subject:
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Re: Remember the Axis of Evil? [may offend]
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 8 Dec 2003 22:24:59 GMT
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Viewed:
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491 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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Regardless of the underlying political leanings of the public, I will admit
that Republicans (and far-Right Conservatives in particular) are much
better at controlling the language of public information and debate than are
the Democrats. That’s not an endorsement of Conservative policy, nor is it
a statement of support of Conservative methods (far from it!), but it is a
fact, regrettably, and must be dealt with as such.
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I’m not sure I agree that it’s fact. Putting aside the false one
dimensionality that you use to measure with, that is.
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Hmm. That’s a good point, except for the meta-fact that all arguments
inconsistent with mine are summarily fallacious.
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I would assert that the Fox/Limbaugh/Moral Majority axis has gotten better at
articulating their views in the media of late but that does NOT mean that
they are *better at it* than the PETA/PFTAW/soft socialist axis are (there’s
that pesky one dimensionality again but bear with me)...
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Interesting. I’d submit that “betterness” can be assessed in terms of which
group is more effective at implementing actual changes favorable to its
position, rather than simply sprinkling its views over the national
consciousness. To this end, I suggest that Conservatives are better at
controlling public discourse than PETA.
Another problem is that PETA, for example, is generally recognized as a
self-caricaturing fringe group, whereas Fox News is fairly widely regarded as a
legitimate news source.
Additionally, I’m honestly not comfortable with the axes you propose. They seem
to reflect the system proposed here, the quiz for
which consists largely of “do you still beat your wife”-style questions. The
differences between the two main parties are not as small as I understand you to
believe.
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Rather, the socialist message has permeated american discourse so thoroughly
for so long that many people hardly notice it is there any more, and the
media themselves (at least in some cases) don’t realise their
presupposition...
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Interesting again, but it’s a chicken-and-egg conundrum. You’re assuming that
“the socialist message” has pervaded American thought due to the efforts of
pro-socialist forces. One could likewise argue that “the socialist message” has
become so widespread because it resonates with the true desires of the
population.
I also contest the term “socialist” in this context, specifically because it is
a term intended to shape this discussion. The Liberalism that I favor is not
Socialism.
Dave!
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Remember the Axis of Evil? [may offend]
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| (...) c /mine/Lar's/ and we're in agreement. (...) That's precisely what I'm driving at! (...) Perhaps currently they are noisier yes and more annoying, but more controlling? Besides that runs counter to my argument, discourse apparent control (...) (21 years ago, 9-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Remember the Axis of Evil? [may offend]
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| (...) I'm not sure I agree that it's fact. Putting aside the false one dimensionality that you use to measure with, that is. I would assert that the Fox/Limbaugh/Moral Majority axis has gotten better at articulating their views in the media of late (...) (21 years ago, 8-Dec-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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