 | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | (...) Tanks are not necessarily buttoned up (hatches closed with the crew inside). I don't know the current tactical doctrine on whether the commander stays exposed for greater visibilty or trusts to the optics and air-conditioning of the tank or (...) (21 years ago, 8-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) This one was. See it in www.euronews.net (choose language first; by the time I'm writing this, it's the second video on the main stories page - requires real player to be seen). The story is here: (URL)b) "unclear", my @$$. European network (...) (21 years ago, 8-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) option with the exceedingly long lag delays. Neither the story nor the video. The video would only be conclusive if it showed the whole incident from start to finish, not just the moment of firing. (...) Regarding reports: see what I mean? (...) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) I regret to hear it's no longer there. If I find this video on the web, would you care for me to send it? (...) The footage showed some 5 secs of the tank turret taking aim, then shooting, then the camera shook. If the tank and the target had (...) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) Post it here, but I believe that I have seen the video on CNN - they were showing it, but running on about something else. Tank shoots building. Pretty straightforward and undeniable. (...) (strategic snipping of my own comments to string this (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) Then you've probably seen it. I'm still looking for the video, though. (...) I still maintain the crewmen could have chosen to look more carefully. The hotel has enough side clearance to stand isolated, so there are no distractions to it. e (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Frank Filz
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| | | | | (...) What if they didn't have a special ops team? You seem to want the military to hang its butt out to avoid any possibility of injuring non-combatants. If the good guys always fought the way you seem to want them to, we wouldn't be living in (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | | (...) Not hang its butt. Just a little more observation skills, to be put to work before the shootout. (...) If I did, would I have posted? (...) You said it. Pedro (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | (...) Whoa. Let me state that the three people's opinions that I most respect and enjoy reading are yours, Pedro's, and Lindsay's (okay, maybe throw Dave! in there, though he can get a little short at times (as if I'm better <g>)). This is one of (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) What are you talking about? My posts are as long as anyone's. Dave! (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | (...) Your post isn't short but is as long as anyone's? Absolutely, positively no comment. ;-) -->Bruce<-- (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) I was in the pool! Dave! (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | (...) Cold water shriveled your post, I suppose? Oooooooo, sorry, does, that count as comment? -->Bruce<-- (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Ouch! This, from the guy who claims to throw me on the "respect" heap. Cold water, indeed... Dave! (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | (...) Well, I did say "is rapidly getting pointless" not "is pointless" or "has been pointless". I think we have reached the point where everyone is starting to repeat themselves by repeating themselves. The only way out of the impasse at this point (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) The answer is simple: they were under fire. You can't wait around for a Delta Force team to be rounded up, briefed, assess the situation, and then make a strike. Mortar rounds are coming in *now*. I don't think asking guys in a tank to take (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) There is more than one way to take an objective. This approach, if proven too hard, could be abandoned for a better one. (...) That situation you refer as possible would present an interesting possibility: to wait, out of range. A hospital is (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) Not too hard: too slow. Shells are dropping. Mortars require a spotter. As I said, there are circumstances where you can't shilly-shally (delay, stall, avoid positive action). Oops! Just lost B company, maybe we can make a group decision, show (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) That decision is easy to take. In a few words, the tanks can fall back to point "A", where no mortar can reach. (...) Indeed. (...) Sorry, I misread. My bad. (...) But I'm not advocating delay under exposure - that's why I say fall back, (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) This is what Frank was talking about when he mentioned the circuitous nature this conversation has taken on. I say *why* simply pulling back is not the answer, and you simply repeat that the thing to do is withdraw without addressing my (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) (scratching my head) All that what you've said is what appears reasonable, but strictly from a military POV. Although the casualties can be (arguably) decreased in regular action with that quicker method, the risk of catastrophic failure under (...) (21 years ago, 12-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) Yes, it is from a military point of view, but it's a military situation. You can only manage things on a political level down so far, and then it becomes counter-productive. Planes are easier, because there are fewer and thus easier to manage (...) (21 years ago, 12-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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