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(...) This is a joke coming from you, in the last weeks you have shown me that you don't understand (amongst other this): Freedom Liberty Freedom of Speech Freedom & liberty From (URL) > As for "first principles", I have become convinced that you (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) Why not? (...) The fact that the evidence which is been presented is all circumstantial, very simplistic in nature and collected by agencies who have failed in the past. When I read the evidence, I have to ask myself why the USA was not on a (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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Hello Dave, hello everybody, I have followed the discussion about responsibility for Iraqi people a while, and what it boils down to is: Different people have different definitions of responsibility. First, there is the humanistic definition: People (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) ??? The FAA has fined airlines many times for rebadging used parts (or dangerous/damaged parts) as certified for re-use. Seems damned obvious to me that the private corps are trying to cut widget maintenance costs IN SPITE OF government agency (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) So to clarify, are you saying that FB jr should pay for FB sr's mistake? In that case, shouldn't you extend your definition to be something like "society is set up to allow people (and their families) to reap ..."? ROSCO (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) afraid. No need for fear 8?) The original comment was directed at Mr Blairs assertion that we should "Be in no doubt Bin Laden and his people organised this atrocity,", and I'm afraid (!) I can't just dismiss my doubts because he asks me to. (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Acha! That's the crucial bit. "More FBS's fault than the government's". I.E. not to say that the government isn't at fault-- that would be (I think it is)misleading. But more to say that it is FBS's actions which, "should" have changed-- or (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Can you elaborate on what you mean by "fault !=bad" then? Maybe there's some fundamental misunderstanding here... However: I'll reiterate, FB Jr.s pain is FB Srs fault more than anyone else's. Reread the cite I gave... you're going down the (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) An "out"? I never said he had an "out". An "out" implies removal of responsibility perhaps, but not of fault. Perhaps a re-reading of my two posts is in order. I feel a little like I'm entering the "Scott-and-Larry show" on this one... DaveE (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Nope. That cite in fact does get to the root of the assertion you make. Saying that FB Sr. has an out because he had a bad childhood is egregious bogosity. (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) that fault != bad. Saying that the US isn't at fault is erroneous. Saying that you stand behind our actions insofar as you think things would have been *WORSE* had we acted differently or not at all is what I expect you to mean. Per your (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Tsk tsk yourself. I'm comfortable I've got the causes pegged correctly. (URL) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) Thanks for the snide comment but which of those three choices were you going with? Calling him a failed politician isn't an answer either. Pick one of the above or show that I omitted one possibility and let me know what it is? (...) This was (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Such sweeping assumptions on causality. Tsk tsk. By pulling back the causal loop one step further to point the finger at FB Sr. instead of the government that imprisoned him is no better than to step back one step further and point the finger (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Me too. This is a very valid concern, and it's true for more than just this particular instance. So you should support mechanisms that are likely to reduce the probability of corners being cut and oppose mechanisms that are likely to increase (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) A great explanation of this was given by Dave! (...) The original cite of "debunk this" deconstructs the UN statistics. Statistics have a way of getting cited and re-cited, and those cites get recited by those that want the statistics to be (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) So you are comfortable with fixing the past mistakes we made in supporting the thugs in Iraq and then in leaving the job undone the first time we had a chance to clean up the mess, then? The implication of that, of course, is that you support (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Historical Significance of Iraq
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(...) <snip> Excellent list. It is a real tragedy that this country is currently run by a thuggish gang (which we had too large a hand in putting in place for my taste, and which we could have removed in 1991 were it not for those advocating that we (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Incorrect. Suffering of children is never "justified". My argument merely demonstrates that their suffering is not the *fault* of the US, just as the suffering of FB Jr (while not "justified") in not having his wants satisfied is not the (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GKou8D.K9v@lugnet.com... (...) I don't think your argument stands one bit. You were trying to use this as justification as to why Iraqi children should suffer, because of the crimes (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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