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(...) afraid. No need for fear 8?) The original comment was directed at Mr Blairs assertion that we should "Be in no doubt Bin Laden and his people organised this atrocity,", and I'm afraid (!) I can't just dismiss my doubts because he asks me to. (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Acha! That's the crucial bit. "More FBS's fault than the government's". I.E. not to say that the government isn't at fault-- that would be (I think it is)misleading. But more to say that it is FBS's actions which, "should" have changed-- or (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Can you elaborate on what you mean by "fault !=bad" then? Maybe there's some fundamental misunderstanding here... However: I'll reiterate, FB Jr.s pain is FB Srs fault more than anyone else's. Reread the cite I gave... you're going down the (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) An "out"? I never said he had an "out". An "out" implies removal of responsibility perhaps, but not of fault. Perhaps a re-reading of my two posts is in order. I feel a little like I'm entering the "Scott-and-Larry show" on this one... DaveE (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Nope. That cite in fact does get to the root of the assertion you make. Saying that FB Sr. has an out because he had a bad childhood is egregious bogosity. (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) that fault != bad. Saying that the US isn't at fault is erroneous. Saying that you stand behind our actions insofar as you think things would have been *WORSE* had we acted differently or not at all is what I expect you to mean. Per your (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Tsk tsk yourself. I'm comfortable I've got the causes pegged correctly. (URL) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) Thanks for the snide comment but which of those three choices were you going with? Calling him a failed politician isn't an answer either. Pick one of the above or show that I omitted one possibility and let me know what it is? (...) This was (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Such sweeping assumptions on causality. Tsk tsk. By pulling back the causal loop one step further to point the finger at FB Sr. instead of the government that imprisoned him is no better than to step back one step further and point the finger (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Me too. This is a very valid concern, and it's true for more than just this particular instance. So you should support mechanisms that are likely to reduce the probability of corners being cut and oppose mechanisms that are likely to increase (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) A great explanation of this was given by Dave! (...) The original cite of "debunk this" deconstructs the UN statistics. Statistics have a way of getting cited and re-cited, and those cites get recited by those that want the statistics to be (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) So you are comfortable with fixing the past mistakes we made in supporting the thugs in Iraq and then in leaving the job undone the first time we had a chance to clean up the mess, then? The implication of that, of course, is that you support (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Historical Significance of Iraq
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(...) <snip> Excellent list. It is a real tragedy that this country is currently run by a thuggish gang (which we had too large a hand in putting in place for my taste, and which we could have removed in 1991 were it not for those advocating that we (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Incorrect. Suffering of children is never "justified". My argument merely demonstrates that their suffering is not the *fault* of the US, just as the suffering of FB Jr (while not "justified") in not having his wants satisfied is not the (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GKou8D.K9v@lugnet.com... (...) I don't think your argument stands one bit. You were trying to use this as justification as to why Iraqi children should suffer, because of the crimes (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Interesting if true
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(...) I have heard this as well. Problem is hindsight is 20/20. Who knew in 1996 that bin Laden would have become the bane of our existance as he is today? Who is to say that taking him out in 1996 would have prevented anything? Its nice to think (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Not necessarily "would have" in all cases, and most assuredly not "should have". It is *not* the duty of the state to ensure that everyone is cared for. That your state has chosen to do that (the will of the majority imposed on all funds it) (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) There is a HUGE difference between "no evidence" ("any evidence") and "no conclusive evidence". That was a very serious omission on your part, I'm afraid. We convict people of crimes based on strong circumstantial evidence all the time... not (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Byzantine Brokering by Byzantium
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(...) Neat. I wonder what play it was to use They Might Be Giants songs... Istanbul was Constantinople Now it's Istanbul not Constantinople So if you've a date in Constantinople She'll be waiting in Istanbul. (I'll confess just about my favorite (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Byzantine Brokering by Byzantium
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(...) So take me back to Constantinople No you can't go back to Constantinople Been a long time gone, Constantinople Why did Constantinople get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks. I seem to recall my mother singing that silly song in (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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