Subject:
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Re: BrikWars Supernatural Rules Bug Fix?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.gaming
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Date:
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Sat, 5 Apr 2003 04:47:18 GMT
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Viewed:
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2800 times
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In lugnet.fun.gaming, David Eaton writes:
> So, I was thinking that the rules for duration are a little broken. See
> http://news.lugnet.com/org/us/nelug/?n=2675 for why I got thinking on this
> issue.
Well this is an issue I've given a lot of thought to, so let me counter each
of your arguments in sequence so that it'll be a big surprise at the end
when I turn the tables and agree with you.
> Bob the Super-Executive is going to go out to lunch. He wants to create a
> GIGANTICALLY HUGE "back in 20 turns" sign to put outside his office. He
> spends 2 SP on range, 100 SP's on Create Matter, and 6 SP's on duration,
> totalling 108 SP's. Cool!
First, any unit with SP's numbering in the hundreds is going to cost a whole
pile of points to buy. Depending on how many different powers Bob can use
his hundred SP's for, he's going to cost in the range of at least 300 - 500
points, so his opponents can build whole armies to counter that one Bob.
In general the SP system is not realy optimized for super-high-cost units;
for a more typical SP-user, setting aside 6 SP for Duratian is going to take
a big chunk out of his budget for making his effect effective. A clever Bob
with 100 SPs to sling around could probably chew right through those armies
if employed correctly; I'll discuss some tweaks for that towards the bottom
of the post.
> Well, let's say Bob didn't know about duration rules. Let's say he had to
> re-cast the spell every round instead. How much would it cost? 102 SP's per
> round comes to... 2,040 SP's total. Wow, that's a bit more than 108...
> Somehow by spending that extra 6 SP's, he's able to compensate for the extra
> 1,932 SP's he would have otherwise had to spend to get the same effect.
On the other hand, spells that last 20 turns have their disadvantages as
well. I've tried to set it up so that enduring effects are either cheap to
counteract (if your opponent has any surviving SP users) or easy to adjust
to. Enduring attribute effects are bought at +1 per SP but counteracted at
-1d6 per SP. Created matter, like Bob's sign, costs just as much to
uncreate as to create in the first place (although a very small uncreate
spell on the bottom section of one of the posts holding up the sign could be
very effective), but since it's a lasting physical object it can be
attacked, avoided, or otherwise compensated for in your enemies' strategy.
There's the slight element of unpredictablity in that it might disappear in
6 turns or it might last 36; but I have the feeling that a large portion of
effects will have sharply diminishing tactical significance after their
first couple of turns anyway.
> Huh. So, let's NOW say that Bob creates these big signs with a duration of
> 20 turns for *each* of the 20 turns. By the 20th turn, Bob's got 2,000 SP's
> of total "effect" on the board, and only needed to spend about 1/20th of
> that per turn! So by the end, Bob's nearly 20 times as powerful as he was
> the 1st round! Go Bob!
Yeah, Shaun and I have discussed possibilities like this on a number of
occasions. I always just thought that stuff like this would be really cool.
If your SP user is causing this much trouble and your enemies don't
prioritize finding a way to putting an end to him in the first three turns,
it's their own fault if he just keeps getting more and more powerful.
> But what if instead, duration cost 1/2 of the cost of the *effect*, for each
> additional round beyond the current round? In other words (cuz I'm out to
> make Bob spend more SP's):
This seems way too harsh to me, although you're free to do what you like.
If I was going to try a solution like this I'd go with something a lot
lighter, like 1/3rd the cost of the effect for every +1d6 rounds.
Now that the counterarguments have been presented, I'm going to real quickly
talk about some solutions that I've been considering.
First, the 'layering' effect of Bob casting the same spell 20 turns in a row
can definitely be a problem, as much as I like it. So I'm planning on
adding a change to the Duration rules that say any SP spent on Duration stay
'spent' until that effect finishes. Or to put it in more practical terms:
whenever Bob casts an effect with Duration, you put a number of white Pips
next to the effect to show how much longer the effect will last. For every
white Pip on the field, Bob has one fewer SP available to work with. As
white Pips are gradually removed, Bob gradually gets his SP back. And I'm
thinking that if Bob needs some of those SP back in an emergency, he should
have the option of instantly sacrificing any white Pips he has in play; I
haven't decided on the specifics of that yet though.
There's already a rule forbidding multiple Enduring Effects affecting the
same attribute, which I felt was the biggest potential abuse of this kind of
'layering.'
I'm also going to introduce another way to induce diminishing returns on
Duration which will be real simple: instead of rolling 1d6 to see if you
remove one Pip from a stack, you roll 1d6 for every Pip in the stack. I.e.,
For an effect with 6 points of Duration, you roll 6d6, and for each doe that
comes up '1' you remove a Pip. That way there's always a chance, however
small, that an effect will end immediately, regardless of how much Duration
it has left. This should increase tension enormously.
My last idea, which I don't actually intend to use but I thought I'd throw
out here for interest's sake, is to think of some way to make enduring
effects a liability. Like, if your Enduring Effect gets counteracted, then
you lose the SP you spent on Duration and don't get to use them again for
the rest of the battle, or you are exposed to some other kind of damage.
All right, I've got to be out the door in five minutes, so I'd better start
summing up. I did want to also mention some of my plans for limiting
super-high-cost SP users.
First, SP effects are going to be treated as attacks, meaning that no matter
how many SP a unit has, he can only make one proactive effect per turn (and
cannot make any other attack on that turn). He may create an effect as
Opportunity Fire only if he hasn't attacked or created an effect on his
previous turn. If the unit is the target of an attack, he may create
defensive (CC range) effects as if they were Counterattacks, meaning
cumulative -2 Skill penalties for each counterattack effect after the first.
There are some super powers that are 'always on,' like Superman's ability to
fly; these are taken on a case-by-base basis but do not use up attack actions.
Speed increases can still grant extra attacks as in SP.2.5, but SP only
regenerates once per turn regardless of increased metabolism.
Counterattacks still take the same -2 Skill after the first no matter how
many regular attacks you have.
That'll have to do it, because I'm out of time for now.
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: BrikWars Supernatural Rules Bug Fix?
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| (...) A couple of things I meant to mention yesterday but didn't have time: 1. Blatant attempts like this to circumvent the SP limits set by the other players are a lot less likely if some or all of the other players each bring a good-sized Hammer (...) (22 years ago, 5-Apr-03, to lugnet.gaming)
| | | Re: BrikWars Supernatural Rules Bug Fix?
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| (...) For the most part I think that's true-- I was thinking more for things where the strength of the effect isn't as important, like creating weapons for troops or 'fig enhancements (especially power where you don't need tons to be (...) (22 years ago, 7-Apr-03, to lugnet.gaming)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | BrikWars Supernatural Rules Bug Fix?
|
| So, I was thinking that the rules for duration are a little broken. See (URL) for why I got thinking on this issue. Example: Bob the Super-Executive is going to go out to lunch. He wants to create a GIGANTICALLY HUGE "back in 20 turns" sign to put (...) (22 years ago, 3-Apr-03, to lugnet.gaming)
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