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Several of the LDLite commands were documented in detail in the file WOOD4.DAT, so make sure you look there. (URL) formal definition of the (...) (22 years ago, 18-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: DAT Curves Plugin For LDDesignPad Version 2.5
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Hello Orion, The preview window works fine and fast here (Win2K, Athlon 1.2GHz). One suggestion: the rotation point of preview should be placed between start points, if the hose is too far away from origin it's difficult to get a meaningful preview. (...) (22 years ago, 18-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Understood. I think we need to focus on creating legitimacy for making decisions on standards before actually making decisions on standards. ;-) (...) That's a resonable request. Here's some thoughts -- I think the standards body will be (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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"Travis Cobbs" <tcobbs@REMOVE.halibut.com> skrev i meddelandet news:HBvHFv.1x9E@lugnet.com... (...) This is not at all uncommon in programming languages, take Pascal for example (UCSD-Pascal, Delphi): A comment can be (* any characters except the (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) That's fine also. I was only offering a possible way to avoid taking even more useful options away from the standards commitee. I don't think it would be too much to ask that new commands all be prefixed with 'UNOFF' or 'UNOFFICIAL'. It of (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) I wasn't too enthusiastic about conference calls when I first heard W3C talk about them. They kind of grew on me as I saw how effective they were. We could resolve in 5 minutes an issue that would otherwise take days of elapsed time and hours (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | SC Membership (was Re: LDraw Versioning)
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(...) [snip] (...) All: I'm open to the concept of being on the SC. My concern is that is that I am not either a heavy LDraw user or LDraw tool person. This is primarily because most of the LDraw tools only run on Windows and I only run Linux these (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) Cool. :-) -Tim (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) very very easy to set up. A list where membership is moderated (not anyone can sign up), only members can post, and has public html archives is very easy to do. (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) Definitely. I think it's important to draw from ILTCO's experience forming as well as Wayne's experience on the W3C. (...) Good idea. While I'm not going for a position on the SB myself, I can attest for the value of voice conversations over (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) There's a (mailman, I think) mailing list set up on LDraw.org which no one uses. We set it up to be used, but never made an effort to move discussion about organizaiton there, so we never used it. The intent was to allow anyone to join and (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) I don't have time to comment on all the rest yet, but ldraw is already set up for this - has been for a year, since we set it up for members@ldraw.org. Dan (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) I hear you. We may find that we need to move to phone to get more done faster but can start that way (...) Yep, me too. (...) If putting the function into ldraw.org itself isn't fast/easy, yes. Yahoo Groups, although disliked by some, are (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) I'm not so keen on actual phone use (all I have is a cell phone), but using AIM, MSN, ICQ etc... is propbably the best way. (...) Due to my work, it's would be easier for me if we did this during or after a lego event. It's easier for me to (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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GREAT input Wayne. (now, can we twist Wayne's arm to be on the SC?) Yes, we should learn from orgs but not adopt everything. The proper balance is key. What follows is some ILTCO organizing committee experience. On the topic of conference calls, (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) This problem is not due to the Swedish character set, but rather a problem with the Lugnet web interface. The Lugnet web interface does not support RFC2047 encoded header fields, that explains the problems with the subject line. I have (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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[snip] (...) Tim: For those who do not know, W3C stands for World Wide Web Consortium and it is the organization that is responsible for web standards such as HTTP, URL, HTML, XML, etc. Before I get into the details of how W3C operates, let me start (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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Ok...replying to myself here... (...) Also, Wayne, since we're on the topic of standards bodies, would you mind sharing with the community some of your thoughts about this, based on your past term(s) as Sun's representative to the W3C? Guys - (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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Ok, picking up where I left off with the previous post. (...) The group charged with working on this was Steve Bliss, Jacob Sparre Andersen, Terry Keller, Larry Pieniazek, and myself. There hasn't been much activity among the four of us as of late, (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) I think you picked a great spot to come in at. (...) Yep: format evolution = good. (...) Good idea. I'd also like to add that such a standards body should be relatively few in number. Not to be exclusionary, but to maintain focus. The number 7 (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) True. That's why I suggested a strong recommendation of using whatever comment prefix we will agree on. Then let's say the future L3P -check will raise a warning for omitting that prefix. /Tore (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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This thread has grown so much since Friday it's hard to know exactly where to interject.... so I just picked a spot. I'll have more to say later after reading the thread again but wanted to throw a few comments out. (...) YES! Exactly. And one could (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) As Steve would say - LDraw and LEdit exist as a benchmark. I would add - for the _original_ LDraw spec - that is, everything LDraw/LEdit can do. 1.0.0 spec, which is essentially what Kevin is working on - documenting all meta-commands up to (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) We already have a standard comment prefix: 0. For better or for worse, meta-commands are just comments that get interpreted to have meaning. I think it's unrealistic to expect users to remember to add a second comment prefix in addition to the (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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Orion Pobursky wrote: What are we going to do when DOS support in PC OS's goes away completely? I have run into this problem with Windows XP, not so much with LEdit and LDraw--I use L3P more often. Thankfully, there is still a Win98 SE computer in (...) (22 years ago, 15-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) Excellent suggestion, Wayne. (...) I like this - with one reservation. We should only focus on documenting 1.0.0 right now. Additions, which would go in a future version (1.1.0) are being openly discussed. Actual decisions on that version (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I disagree. Let's stick with the current method of meta-commands until a standards body officially determines the syntax of future generation commands. No hold on anything, innovation can continue (just in the same disorganized fashion it (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) If tags were the way to go, I agree. BUT, ultimately I side with Kevin, just add comment marks, not meta-command ones. I think that option makes the most sense. But as Dan also said, I'm not a programmer who will be implementing this, so I (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) This is all the main idea behind my suggestion for a branch of the namespace to be considered 'open to all' without discussion. I originally suggested 0 APP appname COMMAND but now I wonder if 0 UNOFFICIAL appname COMMAND, or something (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Well this was one of the reasons behind my original suggestion. (This thread sure did take off while I was away skiing this weekend.) I suggested that a new meta command group be made today, albeit before the creation of a standards body, so (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) Ah, I see the confusion. In saying //, what I really meant was "0 //", where // is the meta-command that means comment. Rather than place all new meta-commands in <>, or (), or {}, I'd rather have a token that means "the rest of this line is a (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) As I tried to indicate in one of my posts much earlier in this thread, I realized after my original post that the presense of the {} would negate the need for a {META} tag. It would probably work just as well with (). The whole reason I (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | LDraw Versioning (Was Re: Backwards Compatibility)
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(...) All: There are gazillions of file formats out there and most of them have had to undergo some amount format evolution. Format evolution is a healthy and common situation. A common first step towards evolving a file format is to introduce a (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) What I mean is: (URL) for example. Quite corrupted and hard to read - even for us who understand Swedish. ;-) I don't know whether brackets will be cause the same kind of problems, but there is a risk. Then a line from a posted part or model (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I don't know about American keyboards, but at my Swedish kb, '{' and '}' are at AltGr+7 and AltGr+0, and it collides with Swedish special characters in the ASCII table; it has to be set on codepage 850 or whatever it was. I find them somewhat (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) The exact same argment can be used in favor of dillineated comments. ;-) (...) Nope. Any program that does not recognize // (picking one as an example) simply ignores it. Just like (META). (...) I don't want to get sidetracked here, but (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) right. (...) but you just said you're doing that anyway - "if you do not recognize the first token in a line type 0 record, it is a comment". Is adding '{META}' to the list of recognizable tokens an issue? Also, you don't have to add it - if (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Backwards Compatibility (Was Calling all Meta-commands)
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(...) I think we cannot ignore the backwards compatibility issue though. What we want is an explicit way to differentiate comments from meta-commands. I think defining an explicit mechanism for comments is completely backward compatible, because if (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: LDraw file spec
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Cool! More thoughts later, I'm off for the afternoon. -Tim (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | LDraw file spec
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In light of recent discussion, I'm working on a consolidated file spec. Basically my aim is to combined the original spec with the 'Official' additions and mention the other additions and where to find definitions. The 'Official' group: The original (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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