Subject:
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Re: Designation conflict
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.build.mecha
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Date:
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Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:07:27 GMT
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"Stephen F Roberts" <wubwub@wildlink.com> wrote in message
news:6hivdssdkbvjj3r99j4ica1g052njq596u@4ax.com...
> "Ben Vaughan" <buster@marsbase.com> wrote:
>
> > <SOAPBOX>Generally (as I understand it at least), an assault is a direct
> > confrontation, usually from the front. With a prepared defender, losses • to
> > the attacking forces can be frighteningly high. With this in mind, the
> > light, fast mecha doesn't seem to be well suited to the role. It may be
> > able to reach the defender's lines, assuming it survives that far, but • most
> > likely won't have enough armament to force an exploitable breach in those
> > same lines.
>
> ...A light assault unit's primary goal is not to exploit or create a
> breach, but to engage the enemy and keep them distracted while heavier
> units can roll up. Even with light weapons, a small mecha cant just be
> ignored when its close, so has to be dealt with.
If you are attacking along the same front, where's the distraction? The
defender's will be able to see the heavies coming. Granted, the light mecha
will have to be dealt with, but attacking a prepared defense is never a fun
thing to do. Besides, that defender is most likely expecting assault mecha
already, since your side has them already, so, unless you're attacking
unprepared or underequipped troops, what kind of odds would you give the
lightweights? If the distraction is to come elsewhere, isn't that going to
involve the use of mobility and manuver? That's something the light units
should be used for anyway. An alternative is to use the light mecha to put
in push that will pin the defenders, then roll the heavies in on the flank,
or vise versa. Either way, you use the types in conjunction, rather than as
a replacement for one type or the other.
>
> > Heavier, better armored mecha seem better able to survive the
> > initial approach and have enough firepower to create and hold a breach.
>
> ...But heavier mecha are also correspondingly more expensive. You
> don't want to 'waste' them on a frontal assault unless you can cover
> them while they get close enough for optimum damage.
Hmm... see my next paragraph re: support roles.
>
> > Medium and Light mecha would seem to better suited to secondary roles • like
> > supporting the following waves that move through the breach and use their
> > speed in the enemies rear. Granted, even a light mecha can have • devastating
> > effects on infantry, but given the environment in which assault mecha • would
> > even be necessary, it's pretty easy to that the light weights would be
> > pretty out-classed in a slugging match.
Whoops! that should read "...it's pretty easy to *assume* ..."
To expand further, Light mecha would be very effective against infantry, but
what about heavy anti-mech defenses? You've got to expect a defender to
have a go at you with everything he's got. Weapons a mecha carries can be
used just as effectively by ground based troops, see:
http://www.marsbase.com/archive/rrt/scram.html (granted, it's fictional, but
isn't the basis for this whole discussion?)
so would it be easy to assume that the contest would be completely
one-sided?
>
> ...Its all a case of firepower/mass... several small mecha (specially
> if they are a penalty to-hit) may be able to bring enuf firepower to
> bear to offset the fact that each one is weak. A swarm of light to
> medium in particular can not be ignored. And all the while, the big
> boys are back there lobbing heavy bolts rather than having their
> armour weakened.
"...may be able to bring enuf firepower to bear..."
Death by a thousand cuts? I'd rather be sure I could show up with the
'biggest and the mostest', and deliver one really big honkin' gash. I do
agree with the firepower/mass statement though, except that I'd want *more*
of each than lightweights could deliver.
I see a Warsaw Pact vs. NATO philosophy here. Sheer numbers vs. High
Tech/High Capability. Both have their advantages, but I think I like the
latter. 8)
>
> but again, ymmv
Brother, you ain't kidding!
> > Light and medium mecha are better
> > suited to battles of manuver. Similar to today's Main Battle Tanks, the
> > open field is the ideal environment, where movement and manuver are the • two
> > very important element.
>
> ...When u are the only tall thing on a plain, it doesn't much matter
> how fast u move :-) (cept u can get to the other tall thing faster!)
Hmm, I can see where I might have given the impression that I was talking
about lines of mecha walking toward each other, blazing away as they went,
but really, I was speaking of manuvering in terrain that allows mecha to
perform at it's peak: flat plains to low rolling hills. Of course, one
would hope the commander and NCO's of any force are smart enough to keep
their forces undercover whenever possible.
On further consideration, I'd say that I would prefer to have a lot of
medium mecha, with lots of rear area support (artillary, air support, etc.)
Heavy enough slug it out if they had to, but quick enough to live to fight
another day. A few heavies here and there for levening, and some
lightweights for scouting/garrison purposes, but I'd rather have a bunch of
swiss army knife mecha. (oo, I sense a new class name there). Check out
R.H. Heinlein's Starship Troopers. You've got three types, Scout, Marauder,
and Command suits. It's the Marauders that do the majority of the work.
> > Ideally, a force will avoid a direct assault in favor of out manuvering • an
> > opponent. Not to say it isn't nice to have the firepower to stomp them
> > flat, though 8).</SOAPBOX>
>
> ...Well, even if u can out maneuver them, eventually you will have to
> assault a position somewhere... its just hoped u can assault the
> weakest point.
Exactly the point! I agree with you there, but why walk directly down the
barrels of the defender's gun's when you could roll up their flank or hit
them in the rear? Frontal assaults went the way of the dodo after WWI.
They still happen, but usually only after exhausting all other
possibilities. The costs in material and personel are way to high.
However, if you have to, you need to go great guns ( hey look! an anime
title! 8) ) and hit your target as hard as you can.
>
>
> > Heh, the SpaceCorps is an example of the classically outgunned force • using
> > it's manuverabilty to defeat the enemy. 8)
> >
> > Ben
>
>
Reading over this, I can see I've rambled all over creation, but what the
heck, it's been slow around here anyway.
>
> ...you can go back to ignoring me now...
Oh, Stephen. Not ever. 8)
Ben
--
Ben Vaughan
buster@marsbase.com
http://www.marsbase.com
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Designation conflict
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| (...) ...In this discussion, I suppose the term 'assault' should not be used to assume a full frontal assault (which, like in WWI, was a general stupid thing to do), but instead refer to an assault along the best front possible given the conditions. (...) (25 years ago, 28-Mar-00, to lugnet.build.mecha)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Designation conflict
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| (...) ...A light assault unit's primary goal is not to exploit or create a breach, but to engage the enemy and keep them distracted while heavier units can roll up. Even with light weapons, a small mecha cant just be ignored when its close, so has (...) (25 years ago, 27-Mar-00, to lugnet.build.mecha)
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