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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> Ban him.
I refuse to support the banning of one member of Lugnet over a dispute with
another member of Lugnet unless both parties are banned together. So I think
you should be more careful of the things you are seeking to achieve because
you will end up getting more than you bargained for -- I think I am not
alone in wanting to ban you and Larry, both, from off-topic.debate in
particular (at least I want to every so often, more often than I'd like).
I think it's a fair observation that more people reading these newsgroups
appreciate his contributions to the community more so than your own, Scott.
Not just here in debate, but elsewhere as well. So in a way, his
contributions protect not only him, but yourself as well -- people are
loathe to get rid of Larry and you together (for example, in a more general
ban from lugnet altogether) if it also means losing his contributions
elsewhere. It doesn't matter if you would like it to be otherwise, it is
what it is. Larry can be a jerk, but when it comes to some things lego
others value his knowledge, expertise, etc.
Even though I often agree with some of your political views, you have other
habits and tendencies that somehow manage to REALLY get under my skin and
annoy the **** out of me. Larry often has the same effect on me, but
despite his occasional lapses into childish behavior (esp. where you are
concerned), I find his general tone to be considerably more civil and
considered -- less getting in the dig just because it can be done. You, by
contrast, seem to often raise questions over things just to get a rise out
of someone -- not because you are genuinely interested in what will then be
said or because you didn't know what the possible responses might be.
Basically, I have come to think of you as ****-disturber in many instances
-- and that's not a great thing for people to think of you.
It seems to me that you often tear down the views of others without having
very many original thoughts yourself (and I don't see where anyone nominated
you the off-topic.debate "Socrates"). Endlessly citing URLs (that I am not
going to visit and read in depth anyway) does not an argument make. Say it
yourself and say it reasonably well, or shut the hell up.
Anyway, I am not wedded to any of these views -- these are just the feelings
and thoughts I have had on the subject for at least a little while. I
thought I might share them with you because it seems to me that you may have
lost perspective on how you come across in these various forums. I imagine
we all lose persepctive from time to time, and this is hardly a perfect
medium of expression.
Larry and I have also been known to mix it up a bit, and I know we both have
said very stupid things about each other even though we don't really know
each other except through these hyperlinked texts -- and believe me, this
represents far from perfect knowledge about a person! (If memory serves...)
I once suggested to Larry that he and I were actually above the petty
bickering in which we were engaged. I observed that we were both probably
very intelligent persons who just happened to disagree on some issues and
had a hard time backing away from the argument. I went so far as to suggest
that if he and I actually knew each other in real life we might turn out to
be friends -- life is strange that way. I knew of a fact that he and I were
both wasting out time arguing about stuff in the manner in which we both
pursued it at that time. When I first tossed these ideas out, Larry was
probably not very receptive to them. In the course of the intervening months
I dare say that Larry has mellowed in his attitude as regards me. I
wouldn't necessarily say that he and I are pals, but I think I have reason
to believe that he doesn't actively dislike me (idle speculation on my
part). Perhaps he doesn't care one way or the other, but even so little as
that allows us to interact in a more civil manner.
Call me the idealist, but I think we should be trying to communicate here.
Be fiesty, be fierce, be opinionated -- just don't be a jerk (not ALL the
time). The sandbox approach to debate has gone on long enough.
Try to take all of this as coming from one jerk to another, discussing a
third. Yes, we have our own freaky, little brotherhood going...
-- Hop-Frog
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