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In lugnet.castle, Micheal Hassall writes:
> I was setting up a castle battle diorama last week when I thought, "Hey, in
> Castle Lego, who is bad?". I mean in the newest theme, the bull guys were
> clearly bad guys. But just one theme earlyer, the fright nights had no enemy
> as far as i remember, but seemed to be evil. considering they were on their
> own the could have been good or evil, which one were they?!?!?!?
Hi Michael,
2 things:
1. Check this discussion on the matter from the previous time some1 ask
that question:
http://news.lugnet.com/castle/?n=10815
2. The way I use to look at it (no one have to agree of course):
1984-1987 Crusders (Good) vs Black Falcons (Bad)
1988-1991 Robin and the Forestpeople (Good) vs Black Knights I (Bad)
1992 Black Knights II (Good) vs Wolfpack (Bad or more Neutral)
1993-1995 Royal Knights (Good) vs Dargon Masters (Bad)
1996-1998 Forestmen (Good) vs Fright Knights (Bad)
2000-2001 Knight Kingdom (Good) vs Bulls (Bad)
Hope that helps
Love LEGO, Love Castles
Yaron "Webrain" Dori
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In lugnet.castle, Yaron Dori writes:
> 1996-1998 Forestmen (Good) vs Fright Knights (Bad)
Yes - set 6087 supports this, but also:
Fright Knights (Bad) vs Royal Knights (Good) in set 6097
and:
Fright Knights (Bad) vs some other generic knightly fellow that I can't
place (presumably Good) in set 6047/6099
Cheers
Richie
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In lugnet.castle, Richie Dulin writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Yaron Dori writes:
> > 1996-1998 Forestmen (Good) vs Fright Knights (Bad)
> Yes - set 6087 supports this, but also:
> Fright Knights (Bad) vs Royal Knights (Good) in set 6097
> and:
> Fright Knights (Bad) vs some other generic knightly fellow that I can't
> place (presumably Good) in set 6047/6099
That knight also belongs to the Royal Knights (the same one from 6090).
Love LEGO Levo Castle
Yaron "Webrain" Dori
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> > Yes - set 6087 supports this, but also:
> > Fright Knights (Bad) vs Royal Knights (Good) in set 6097
> > and:
> > Fright Knights (Bad) vs some other generic knightly fellow that I can't
> > place (presumably Good) in set 6047/6099
> That knight also belongs to the Royal Knights (the same one from 6090).
I guess that's why they call the set 6099, "Traitor Transport", because
the Royal Knight has changed allegiences and joined his enemy (the Fright
(k)Nights)in fine "benedict arnold" style. :)
Ben
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Hello!
> The way I use to look at it (no one have to agree of course)
I do not agree at all :-)
> 1984-1987 Crusders (Good) vs Black Falcons (Bad)
In these years there were no "Good" and "Bad", there were just knights from
different clans, who sometimes made war on each other, sometimes lived in
peace together. BTW the Crusaders are more aggressive (and therefore more
likely called "bad") than the Black Falcons, for they have much more battle
machines.
> 1988-1991 Robin and the Forestpeople (Good) vs Black Knights I (Bad)
> 1992 Black Knights II (Good) vs Wolfpack (Bad or more Neutral)
I wouldn't make a difference between Black Knights I and Black Knights II.
They are 'Dragon Knights' altogether. When I was a child those knights were
evil, and #6085 used to be my castle for the Sheriff of Nottingham :-)
The Wolfpack guys are probably robbers as well as the Forest Men (Robin
Hood). However, they do not have noble intents when thieving from the rich men.
> 1993-1995 Royal Knights (Good) vs Dargon Masters (Bad)
> 1996-1998 Forestmen (Good) vs Fright Knights (Bad)
> 2000-2001 Knight Kingdom (Good) vs Bulls (Bad)
Well, I think, that's exactly what was intended bei TLC.
Bye
Jojo
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Hi again
In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
> > 1984-1987 Crusders (Good) vs Black Falcons (Bad)
>
> In these years there were no "Good" and "Bad", there were just knights from
> different clans, who sometimes made war on each other, sometimes lived in
> peace together.
You can look at it that way too I guess
> BTW the Crusaders are more aggressive (and therefore more
> likely called "bad") than the Black Falcons, for they have much more battle
> machines.
Don't agree. I mean it's true that Crusaders had more battle machines, but
they more in everything. Black Falcons had only 6 LEGO sets while the
Crusaders had like 14. They had more in everythings, bigger castles, more
chariots etc.
However in this pictures
http://library.brickshelf.com/scans/0000/0250-1987/0250-48.html
http://library.brickshelf.com/scans/0000/0250-1987/0250-49.html
it's look like the Crusaders attacking the Black Falcons.
Well anyway the Black Falcons will stay forever bad in my point of view.
> > 1988-1991 Robin and the Forestpeople (Good) vs Black Knights I (Bad)
> > 1992 Black Knights II (Good) vs Wolfpack (Bad or more Neutral)
>
> I wouldn't make a difference between Black Knights I and Black Knights II.
> They are 'Dragon Knights' altogether. When I was a child those knights were
> evil, and #6085 used to be my castle for the Sheriff of Nottingham :-)
I agree with that point. It's not right to say Black Knights I and Black
Knights II, yet I couldn't think of a better way to see it.
For ages I also included the Dargon Masters as part of that same group.
"#6085 used to be my castle for the Sheriff of Nottingham" - I think it's
not far from the truth, I think at least in several Robin Hood films they were
Dragon as their symbol.
Well something that in concerning the above, just wanted to say
Jojo as always wonderful work you made on you new (2nd) model for the ISCC
http://www.1000steine.de/iscc/iscc2/entries/133/index.htm
(I couldn't find the formel annocment on that model so I'm writting it here)
Love LEGO Love Castle
Yaron "Webrain" Dori
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Hello!
[Crusaders vs. Black Falcons]
> Don't agree. I mean it's true that Crusaders had more battle machines, but
> they more in everything. Black Falcons had only 6 LEGO sets while the
> Crusaders had like 14. They had more in everythings, bigger castles, more
> chariots etc.
That's true. And this is why I always preferred Black Falcons rather than
Crusaders. BFs were the underdogs that I've sympathy for.
> Well anyway the Black Falcons will stay forever bad in my point of view.
Hehe, I can understand this point of view. Crusaders look noble with their
golden Lion's Crest and with their big castles. They're probably meant to
represent Richard Lionheart's loyal fellowers.
In contrast to the Crusaders the BFs look dark and almost sinister, with one
word: they look evil. But they are much cooler than those harmless Crusaders...
[Black Knights, Dragon Masters]
> For ages I also included the Dargon Masters as part of that same group.
Unfortunatelly the shield of the DMs is very similar to the oval BKs'
shield. So these two groups might be mingled by many people. However, I
think the style of armour and castles (considering the fact that BKs already
had two castles) is reason enough to seperate both factions from each other.
> "#6085 used to be my castle for the Sheriff of Nottingham" - I think it's
> not far from the truth, I think at least in several Robin Hood films they were
> Dragon as their symbol.
I'm not even sure if this was the reason for my choice. Probably the
blackness of the castle itself was dicisive.
> Well something that in concerning the above, just wanted to say
> Jojo as always wonderful work you made on you new (2nd) model for the ISCC
> http://www.1000steine.de/iscc/iscc2/entries/133/index.htm
> (I couldn't find the formel annocment on that model so I'm writting it here)
Thank you very much!
I didn't make a formal announcement because I didn't translate the German
text into English. Unfortunatelly I don't know many of the appropiate
technical terms, that I used in German.
Bye
Jojo
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> In lugnet.castle, Micheal Hassall writes:
> I was setting up a castle battle diorama last week when I thought, "Hey, in
> Castle Lego, who is bad?". I mean in the newest theme, the bull guys were
> clearly bad guys. But just one theme earlyer, the fright nights had no enemy
> as far as i remember, but seemed to be evil. considering they were on their
> own the could have been good or evil, which one were they?!?!?!?
Just another word on the subject,you can also of course see it as the TLC
repeating way. I mean take for example LEGO City, how many Airports,
Hospitals, Fire Departments, Police... they made during the last 20 years.
But of course a kid who played in 1984 with his Airport, when LEGO produced
the 1994 Airport he was no longer a kid and there were other kids to enjoy
it the same way he did (LEGO basiclly is made for kids and not collectors
after all). As for castle just count the number of Catapults or Chariots you
have.
In the same way of looking at it, LEGO Castle have three major themes that's
keep on recycling itself (I wouldn't say evolve because you'll see examples
of exactly the opposite):
Castles/Knights/Kings...(can be refered also as Good Guys?):
1984 - Crusders
1984 - Black Falcons
1988 - Black Knights
1995 - Royal Knights
2000 - Knight Kingdom
The basic of their structure is more or less the same. Prehaps it's hard to
look at the Black Knights as good because their Dark Black Castle #6085 but
basiclly it's structure is almost the same as #6080 a part from the color of
course. I guess the Yellow Castle can also fit in this catagory.
Trees and Caves/Peasants/Thieves...(can be refered also as Neutral Guys?):
1984 - Few minifigs like #6010
1988 - Robin Hood and the forestmens
1992 - Wolfpack
1996 - Forest people
I don't think I need to explain that part
Dragons/Magics...(can be refered also as Bad Guys):
1993 - Dragon Masters
1997 - Fright Knights
2000 - Bull Knights
OK, to start comparing between Dragon Masters & Fright Knights it's pretty
easy. Everyone can see the connection between them. Using Dragons & Bats,
Witches and Wizards, unique wired looking structures, basiclly the same.
I'll have to add the Bull Knights into that catagory because there is a sure
connection with the previous, but they never had even a single structure
(something I always wondered), only war machines...
Love LEGO, Love Castles
Yaron "Webrain" Dori
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In lugnet.castle, Yaron Dori writes:
> > In lugnet.castle, Micheal Hassall writes:
> > I was setting up a castle battle diorama last week when I thought, "Hey, in
> > Castle Lego, who is bad?". I mean in the newest theme, the bull guys were
> > clearly bad guys. But just one theme earlyer, the fright nights had no enemy
> > as far as i remember, but seemed to be evil. considering they were on their
> > own the could have been good or evil, which one were they?!?!?!?
>
> Just another word on the subject,you can also of course see it as the TLC
> repeating way. I mean take for example LEGO City, how many Airports,
> Hospitals, Fire Departments, Police... they made during the last 20 years.
> But of course a kid who played in 1984 with his Airport, when LEGO produced
> the 1994 Airport he was no longer a kid and there were other kids to enjoy
> it the same way he did (LEGO basiclly is made for kids and not collectors
> after all). As for castle just count the number of Catapults or Chariots you
> have.
>
> In the same way of looking at it, LEGO Castle have three major themes that's
> keep on recycling itself (I wouldn't say evolve because you'll see examples
> of exactly the opposite):
>
> Castles/Knights/Kings...(can be refered also as Good Guys?):
> 1984 - Crusders
> 1984 - Black Falcons
> 1988 - Black Knights
> 1995 - Royal Knights
> 2000 - Knight Kingdom
>
> The basic of their structure is more or less the same. Prehaps it's hard to
> look at the Black Knights as good because their Dark Black Castle #6085 but
> basiclly it's structure is almost the same as #6080 a part from the color of
> course. I guess the Yellow Castle can also fit in this catagory.
>
> Trees and Caves/Peasants/Thieves...(can be refered also as Neutral Guys?):
> 1984 - Few minifigs like #6010
> 1988 - Robin Hood and the forestmens
> 1992 - Wolfpack
> 1996 - Forest people
>
> I don't think I need to explain that part
>
> Dragons/Magics...(can be refered also as Bad Guys):
> 1993 - Dragon Masters
> 1997 - Fright Knights
> 2000 - Bull Knights
>
> OK, to start comparing between Dragon Masters & Fright Knights it's pretty
> easy. Everyone can see the connection between them. Using Dragons & Bats,
> Witches and Wizards, unique wired looking structures, basiclly the same.
> I'll have to add the Bull Knights into that catagory because there is a sure
> connection with the previous, but they never had even a single structure
> (something I always wondered), only war machines...
>
> Love LEGO, Love Castles
> Yaron "Webrain" Dori
I've always thougth of the Lego castle series evolving in time: starting
just after 1066 with the military Norman fortresses of England, continuing
with the more inhabitable medieval knights castles (around 1300), and ending
so far with the splendid royal show-piece castles of the late medieval
(around 1500), where the introduction of black powder (Bull's cannons) made
the older fortifications obsolete.
With the castles being from different periods, the "good vs. bad" differs as
well; the kings Norman fortresses eventually grew into being the Earls
strongpoints in the rebellions against the king. So good in one time could
be bad in a later time.
Arne, Copenhagen
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