Subject:
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Re: Rope & Plexi revisited
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.org.ca.vlc
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Date:
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Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:54:39 GMT
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Reply-To:
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robinsather@hotmail!Spamcake!.com
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Viewed:
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1169 times
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OK, here goes ...
<Devil's advocate mode ON>
> PLEXIGLASS
> Pros
> - Psychological barrier (for some)
For most, I think. Most kids at our display were with parents, and
even if the plexi wasn't a barrier for the kids, it would clue the
parents in to keep the kids from reaching over the top, etc.
Of course, a rope will accomplish the same thing.
> - If a train derails off tracks towards table edge/floor, plexi serves as
> barrier
Quite important, IMHO.
> Cons
> - Kids love to hang off the edge of tables with fingers and will do the same
> with plexi -- heavier children could pull the whole damn thing down on top
> of them
A very important point. We would need to have a wood frame, or sturdy
plastic edge covering along the top, or I wouldn't even bother with
the plexi.
> - Expensive
I would estimate, based on my research into this option, about $ 200.
Labour is assumed to be free.
> - Need cleaning as children do children things (putting sticky fingers,
> mouths and tongues onto the plexi)
As they will on the rope. That rope will be swung on, pulled over,
leaned into, etc. ...
> - Hellions will still reach over the plexi to mess with display
And they'll also walk right under/around the rope to get right up to
the display.
> - More difficult to match different sized displays and to mount onto tables
We do the same thing we do now. Everything in multiples of 10". Some
60" sections, some 30" sections, and probably a couple 10" sections.
The other thing is that we don't necessarily have to have the barrier
go corner to corner. A foot exposed here or there on a side is not a
problem.
> ROPE (simple wood stand with rope approx 10 inches away from display)
> Pros
> - Inexpensive
Assuming that we build the stands (I estimate 20 to 22 of them for our
current layout), and assuming that Kevin donates his old climbing
rope, I would ball park the cost at $ 100, labour not included. If we
have to secure our own rope, that cost will be higher (cheap yellow
twine just won't cut it for this purpose).
Building stands will probably take a lot more work than building
frames for the plexi as well. If we have to pay for it, that will
probably send the costs for rope even higher than plexi. If one of us
is going to build them, well, who's gonna do it?
> - Easier to see arms of Hellions reaching onto display (making cattle
> prodding or tazer use more targeted)
Or how about an electric fencing wire running around the perimeter of
the table. :-)
> - People KNOW it's a barrier not to be crossed and will not be picking up
> moving trains and other brainless acts of stupidity
I seriously don't think you can make this assumption. The very same
kids that do it now, will lean waaaaay over the rope, walk under, etc.
to do exactly as they do now.
> - Can be used for any size display easily
Probably the most important "pro" for rope.
> Cons
> - Harder to see some display detail
Whis is the most crucial "con" for rope. After all, why is that we
create all this detail anyway?
> I don't believe we need rocks or heavy rope stands -- the guys at the TTOS
> had simple wood stands to hold the rope and that was fine -- light and
> practical.
They also did not have people lined up 3 deep at their layout. Much
of the problems we had was because people were pressing up against the
layout (pushing up baseplates, leaning over track and derailing
trains, etc.). Those lightweight wooden stands fall over if one
person leans on or against it even a little. What about 5 or 6
people?
Also, don't forget that the layout you're referring to had plexi as
well.
All we need is for someone to be pushed from behind, and to fall over
the rope into the edge of the table. On Saturday, there was one old
fellow that tripped over the gap in the carpet, right near the
downtown area. He instinctively reached out, and grabbed for the edge
of the table, catching a couple of baseplates at the southeast corner.
He pulled a few apart, detached the trolley track, but all in all
didn't do too much damage. In this case, if there had been a plexi
barrier, he probably would have grabbed it, and broken it right off.
Not good. A rope barrier? He would also have grabbed for it, and it
would have fallen over with him. Hopefully, the rope and/or the stand
wouldn't have hurt him. In this case? One narrow point for the rope
solution.
Here's another VERY important point against rope. The area enclosed
by the rope will be part of our layout. In other words, our 13' by
18' layout would now be 15' by 20'. Our current layout dimensions
(taken from Train Designer) are 12' 3" by 18' 8". However, our tables
stick out further on the long dimension, so we're up to 19' already.
Or, with ropes, make that 15' by 22'. That size might be a problem
for upcoming shows.
I did a LOT of watching on the weekend, and here's a quick analysis.
Most of the problems came from hands, fingers, faces, arms, elbows,
purses, and yes, even bellies (our rotund Global reporter) reaching in
over the layout and/or the track, and derailing trains, pushing over
trees, buildings, skytrains, etc. Both rope and plexi would deal
effectively with this type of problem. However, little kids don't pay
attention to rope. They will just go right ahead and duck underneath
the barrier. Then we've got those same fingers right up at the layout
again.
There were also people specifically reaching in, "over top", and
touching and/or pointing at things in the layout. From what I saw,
the vast majority of people that pointed, did NOT touch anything.
They just happened to be over top the layout, and were pointing
closely. Personally, I don't see a big problem with these people.
There were some who touched various parts the layout right near the
edge. Both rope and plexi will deal with these situations.
There were a handful of people (both kids AND adults) that walked
right up to the display and simply started picking up rolling stock,
or pushing trains back and forth, etc. In these cases, plexi would
not create a physical barrier, but IMO, would present enough of a
psychological barrier (especially to the adults that I witnessed) to
prevent the problem. ALL of the people that I saw do this were more
than tall enough to lean over a rope barrier that is only 10" away
from the table, and do the same thing. Again, the rope would probably
present enough of a psychological barrier to prevent this problem.
The conclusion? IMO, both rope and plexi do a reasonable job, but at
this point, I think plexi is still a little better.
<Devil's advocate mode OFF> ... sort of
> Personally, I get stressed dealing with children and the public. The
> Saturday portion was great, but Sunday was hell on my nerves. I'd like to
> see something in place for the Burnaby show in November.
As would I. I want a real, permanently available, easily storable,
effective solution. Personally, I'm still undecided on which way to
go, but am leaning towards the plexi, or perhaps an as yet
undiscovered solution.
My main point on the issue is this; Philosophically, I WANT people to
be able to get in close, and to study the detail that most of us have
spent so much time building into our creations. To build as we do,
and then keep people 3 feet away seems to defeat the purpose. I know
that I, for one, would be quite frustrated at not being able to see up
close. After all, how do each of us examine each other's models? We
get down to table level, and get 6 to 10 inches away from it. That's
how to appreciate it best! Plexi allows this. Rope does not. I
think that we should approach a solution with preserving the viewing
experience as a primary goal.
If you look at the complete argument, the costs (in money and time)
will probably work out to be nearly the same, the psychological
barrier effect is probably the same, and each solution has its strong
points. For me, the main goal is to protect our display, while
preserving an ideal viewing experience. Plexi has a slim lead on
rope, in my opinion.
Robin
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Rope & Plexi revisited
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| Robin Sather wrote in message <3b701f5a.920171@lugnet.com>... (...) Very quick comment - the rope would be lent, not donated, as I have other uses for it. However, it cost me $25 for 50m of used climbing rope so it would not be hard to buy more (...) (23 years ago, 7-Aug-01, to lugnet.org.ca.vlc)
| | | Re: Rope & Plexi revisited
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| All very good points, Robin. I'll not add to this discussion any further for fear of endless banter about silly little things. Plexi would be in the lead for me provided there is some height to the plexi (not just 2 inches). And you can clean the (...) (23 years ago, 7-Aug-01, to lugnet.org.ca.vlc)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Rope & Plexi revisited
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| Okay, gang: One of several things we'll need to discuss soon -- rope and plexi barriers. I think we still need a barrier for shows. Following is a list of Pros and Cons for each -- please add your two cents as well because I doubt I got everything: (...) (23 years ago, 7-Aug-01, to lugnet.org.ca.vlc)
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