Subject:
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Re: Thoughts on prayer
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:56:59 GMT
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Viewed:
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111 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes:
> My father would always say a little prayer before starting the car, leaving
> on a trip or just stepping out of the house. At family meals, he would
> always lead a prayer before eating. Although the worship of God didn't take
> with me, the idea of a moment of clarity did. To this day I still take a
> moment to gather my thoughts (before driving, taking an exam, working on
> something) or reflect on how fortunate I am (before eating or going to bed).
> I wouldn't call it prayer since my thoughts aren't on God or gods. It's my
> moment of clarity to reflect or just clear the mind of distractions. That's
> what I think prayer should be.
Daniel:
I completely respect what you have to say here. If I may paraphrase you, simply
to better understand what you are saying, do you mean that because you do not
believe in a higher power, that you believe prayer to be a self-reflection; a
process of finding inner peace and peaceful reflection?
> Conversely, I've noticed so many people treating prayer like a shopping
> list. It boggles my mind watching people, with so much already, asking God
> for more. I remember lots of misused prayer during my high school (public
> HS) basketball days when Coach would lead a prayer for us to prevail over
> our opponent. Perhaps we didn't pray hard enough since we lost 11 of 12
> games? Maybe the other team just prayed harder? Maybe it was having an
> atheist on our squad? I've even watched pro athletes give praise to God and
> Jesus for hearing their prayers so they could win the championship. That's
> not prayer to me. That's more like wishing.
I agree completely. I became a Christian in a *very* charismatic church, but
I've since left that branch of Christendom because I sincerely believe that a
fair amount of heresy has sprung up there. Large parts of the Pentecostal
movement have come to view prayer as a personal power; really, a hocus-pocus act
of mind-over-matter. Those of us in the church universal (i.e., simply the body
of believers) warily call this the "name-it-claim-it movement." When Christians
pray, we do indeed do so in the name of Jesus (the inherent meaning of which is
basically "Thy will be done"), but unfortunately large numbers of honest
believers are being led to believe that answered prayer is theirs by right. The
church that I left a number of years ago now has a billboard that proclaims
"There's power in the name of Jesus!" This grieves me because the underlying
insidious principle at work here is that to proclaim faith in Christ is like
using a magic wand to make things happen. I'm sure that most of us are familiar
with Benny Hinn: he and the people that he persuades are prime examples of this
heresy in action. The real harm comes when people are led to believe that
"power" and consistently answered prayer (in an absolute sense) are normative
experiences of the Christian life. I've seen this idea wound the faith of so
many people. I really became aware of this flawed understanding of prayer
shortly after I became a Christian and witnessed a church-camp activity day in
which the opposing youth groups competing in tug-of-war contests would intently
pray for victory before the match started. It was pretty clear to me then, as
it is now, that prayer doesn't work that way.
Basically what I'm getting at is that, as a Christian, I understand your
reservations regarding prayer because there has been a great misuse of the act
of prayer by believers. That said, I do genuinely believe that God has answered
my prayers; never like a bolt of lightning, but in ways that have led me down
"better paths" as a person.
> Last thought: People are still debating prayer in school. I say why not
> allow a moment of silence? If kids want to pray, let them go for it
> (silently). If others want to take a deep breath, relax and clear their
> worries, even better. But saying it's unconstitutional is plain wrong to me.
> After all, doesn't our money say "In God we trust"? So what if a kid want's
> to take a moment to pray quietly to Jesus or whomever? Did Coach's prayers
> violate my rights as an atheist? All I was thinking about was how dorky we
> looked in those old, polyester, butterfly collar warm-ups and hug-me tight
> shorts, and me going out to warm the bench and watch us lose.
I agree that a moment of silence is indeed important; i think that the act of
prayer or meditation is inherently valuable to people; it teaches a sense of
reverence and humility; it helps people to understand themselves in the proper
perspective. Children do indeed need that moment of silence; they have all too
little of it in their lives. I will say, however, that I don't believe that
religion of any kind should be a part of public education. I don't want my
children influenced to a faith contrary to that in which I (will) see fit to
raise them, and I will not do so to other people's children.
james
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Thoughts on prayer
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| (...) Exactly, a moment of "prayer" in my case would a moment of clarity for self reflection or meditation (clearing the mind and focusing on the moment). I personally would not give praise or thanks to any higher power, but I'd certainly be a fool (...) (23 years ago, 10-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Thoughts on prayer
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| Greetings! I noticed so many interesting posts regarding spirituality here so I thought I'd start a discussion about prayer. One day my wife was telling me about one of her friends at work, an older Christian woman. She is a very nice woman, perhaps (...) (23 years ago, 10-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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