Subject:
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Re: Thoughts on prayer
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:33:49 GMT
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Viewed:
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236 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, James Simpson writes:
> I completely respect what you have to say here. If I may paraphrase you, simply
> to better understand what you are saying, do you mean that because you do not
> believe in a higher power, that you believe prayer to be a self-reflection; a
> process of finding inner peace and peaceful reflection?
Exactly, a moment of "prayer" in my case would a moment of clarity for self
reflection or meditation (clearing the mind and focusing on the moment). I
personally would not give praise or thanks to any higher power, but I'd
certainly be a fool not to reflect on how fortunate I am. I would hope that
believers also give a measure of self reflection in their prayer, in
addition to thanks and praise to whomever they worship.
>
> > Conversely, I've noticed so many people treating prayer like a shopping
> > list. <snipped some> That's more like wishing.
>
> I agree completely. I became a Christian in a *very* charismatic church, but
> I've since left that branch of Christendom because I sincerely believe that a
> fair amount of heresy has sprung up there.
Yes, heresy and religious conceit. Making their brand of "Christianity"
commercialized and materialistic, rather than humble and worldly.
> Large parts of the Pentecostal
> movement have come to view prayer as a personal power; really, a hocus-pocus act
> of mind-over-matter. Those of us in the church universal (i.e., simply the body
> of believers) warily call this the "name-it-claim-it movement."
Good way to put it. I remember flipping through the TV and coming across the
"700 Club" as they were talking about "power prayer" or something sounding
like that. Their tone was demanding, like "Now you listen here, Lord!"
> When Christians
> pray, we do indeed do so in the name of Jesus (the inherent meaning of which is
> basically "Thy will be done"), but unfortunately large numbers of honest
> believers are being led to believe that answered prayer is theirs by right.
As if they have a private telephone connection with God.
> The
> church that I left a number of years ago now has a billboard that proclaims
> "There's power in the name of Jesus!" This grieves me because the underlying
> insidious principle at work here is that to proclaim faith in Christ is like
> using a magic wand to make things happen.
What a shame, too, since the true "power" of Jesus is the knowledge and
wisdom he shared to help people live a good, peaceful life. Regardless of
whether you believe in God or not, there's much to learn from Jesus the
person. He's a hero to me, in the same way as Ghandi or Dr. Martin Luther
King Jr.
> I'm sure that most of us are familiar
> with Benny Hinn: he and the people that he persuades are prime examples of this
> heresy in action. The real harm comes when people are led to believe that
> "power" and consistently answered prayer (in an absolute sense) are normative
> experiences of the Christian life. I've seen this idea wound the faith of so
> many people. I really became aware of this flawed understanding of prayer
> shortly after I became a Christian and witnessed a church-camp activity day in
> which the opposing youth groups competing in tug-of-war contests would intently
> pray for victory before the match started. It was pretty clear to me then, as
> it is now, that prayer doesn't work that way.
Wow! What a mind blower that must have been for you! Yes, that's the stuff
I'm talking about, this idea of power and self-righteous gratification. I
had a similar mind-opener as a teen in my church youth group days (although
I confess I was just there for the girls and free cookies). We had contests
like that and same sort of "pray for victory" attitude.
> Basically what I'm getting at is that, as a Christian, I understand your
> reservations regarding prayer because there has been a great misuse of the act
> of prayer by believers. That said, I do genuinely believe that God has answered
> my prayers; never like a bolt of lightning, but in ways that have led me down
> "better paths" as a person.
That's a sensible and positive way to look at it. For me, rather than credit
God for answering my prayers, I give credit to myself for taking time to
reflect and focus. Obviously, knowing yourself and taking a moment to think
and keep things in perspective helps reveal more choices for better
decisions("better paths"). I also credit the people around me who, directly
or indirectly, influence my life through their example or involvement,
revealing more choices for a better path.
> > Last thought: People are still debating prayer in school. I say why not
> > allow a moment of silence? <snipped>
> I agree that a moment of silence is indeed important; I think that the act of
> prayer or meditation is inherently valuable to people; it teaches a sense of
> reverence and humility; it helps people to understand themselves in the proper
> perspective. Children do indeed need that moment of silence; they have all too
> little of it in their lives.
Exactly. Whatever people choose to call it (prayer, meditation, etc), I see
it as a tool for better concentration. It comes down to biology. We think
better if we have more oxygen. When we are stressed (with anger or anxiety)
our blood vessels constrict, elevating our blood pressure and slowing the
transportation of oxygen. More breath, more oxygen, more cells working! So I
learned to take a few deep breaths to get the oxygen in the brain, close the
eyes so as to not be distracted, visualize the task, and do it.
> I will say, however, that I don't believe that
> religion of any kind should be a part of public education. I don't want my
> children influenced to a faith contrary to that in which I (will) see fit to
> raise them, and I will not do so to other people's children.
Yes, keeping religion out of it is very important, but teaching kids to take
a moment to think is practical. I work with kids and I usually ask them to
clam down by taking a deep breath or briefly sit them down to "cool off." On
that note, a teacher can say "Okay kids, have a seat. Before we take the
test I want to give everyone a moment of silence to take a deep breath,
relax and focus on doing a good job." That's not state sponsored prayer,
that's called getting focused. Whether a kid chooses to use that moment for
praise and worship is their private business. They're going to pray anyway,
why not make it a positive thing by giving everybody a moment to do their thing?
I know, there's always some fanatic who believes there's only one way to
pray or meditate, or some paranoid parent afraid their child will be
suddenly influenced to the "dark side" in this moment of silence. Or some
closed-minded sort that doesn't like all this hippie, earthy Yoga "breathing
stuff." Too bad.
Dan
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Thoughts on prayer
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| (...) That's an interesting perspective that I've never considered before. I've always considered the true power of Jesus' message being the fact that God wants a relationship with me. That's a mind-boggling concept. That the Creator of the Universe (...) (23 years ago, 12-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Thoughts on prayer
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| (...) Daniel: I completely respect what you have to say here. If I may paraphrase you, simply to better understand what you are saying, do you mean that because you do not believe in a higher power, that you believe prayer to be a self-reflection; a (...) (23 years ago, 10-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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