Subject:
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Re: About "Plowed Territory" - Outcomes
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 3 Dec 2000 00:55:33 GMT
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Viewed:
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416 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
>
>
> Larry Pieniazek wrote:
>
> > Everyone else I will continue to call on Plowed Ground. Including you. And
> > I'd appreciate the same courtesy in return, everyone please call me on
> > Plowed Ground in the (seems impossible, doesn't it, given how nifty! I
> > am...) event that I should repeat myself.
>
> At the risk (hope;) of annoying you further, I'll recite the absolute >pertinent part of the chapter:
>
> "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be
> done; and there is nothing new under the
> sun.
>
> Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new"? It has been
> already, in the ages before us.
>
> There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any
> remembrance of later things yet to happen
> among those who come after."
>
> So, my point is that *everything* is plowed ground and therefore your whining
> about it is senseless. But even still, some of this plowed ground is still >new to some and is therefore valid to them. Merely because *you* have shut >your mind on the topic doesn't invalidate its relevancy for others.
Since we have already concluded everything as plowed ground, and the major
participants concede that neither can persuade the other, I propose moving
passed plowed ground to the crop yielded by the ground.
Assuming that atheism were "the" truth, the end of all things is that you
die and cease to exist. Correct? What ever meaning you're existence had is
held only in the memory of those you impacted or in the lasting
contributions you made to society at large.
Assuming that Christianity is "the" truth, the end of this life is the
beginning of the next. For "believers" it means heaven. For "non-believers"
it means torment. In both cases, our existence has meaning far beyond
physical death.
Now, if the former is true, then those in the latter are on equal footing -
they have ceased to exist. Nothing to lose.
If the latter is true, do the former not have a tremendous amount to lose?
If I live my life of "faith" and die to find that there is no god, and I
just cease to exist, have I suffered any loss? I've heard of numerous
studies that conclude that people of faith generally live longer, happier
lives (I sincerely welcome evidence to the contrary). If my faith
contributed to a better quality of life, in the end, what have I lost when I
cease to exist?
I personally am not missing out on any eathly pleasures. I am known to
imbibe adult beverages at will - the Bible never teaches abstinence in this
area. I ingested enough controlled substances in high school to realize that
I don't need that anymore. As for sexual pleasure - promiscuity in the
current climate goes against naturalism - because it'll kill ya! Regardless,
my wife is centerfold material, so I'm not lacking there anyway (beni's of
marrying someone 8 years younger). I eat more than 5 men and still stay thin
- so that pleasure is not at issue. I love heavy metal music and don't let
religious zealots deprive me of it. And what could be better than Lego as a
hobby?
So, how would I personally, or anyone else for that matter, be benefited by
the knowledge that there is no god? This is an honest question, not just
rhetoric.
If anyone has anything to potentially lose in this controversy, in the end,
it's the atheist. Of course that's no reason to change one's belief system,
just a statement of fact.
So, basically, if I'm wrong, so what? If you're wrong, you have more to lose.
Your position is more precarious.
As to evidence, this notion that, "I won't believe anything without 100%
proof" is cowardly, in my opinion. It yields nothing of greatness. It
reminds me of the parable of the servant who hid his coin because he was
afraid to lose it. I wonder if the Wright brothers would have invented the
airplane with that attitude. I wonder if anyone would ever use a parachute
by that standard. As a military man, I wonder if any great battles against
insurmountable odds would have been won, or even fought in the first place,
with that attitude. Many a great deeds have been accomplished by those who
believed in something without proof.
Bill
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: About "Plowed Territory" - Outcomes
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| (...) I suggest asking a similar "honest question" to your self: "How would I personally, or anyone else for that matter, be benefited by the knowledge that there is god?" (...) So what? (...) This is the most stupid way of reasoning, unfortunately (...) (24 years ago, 4-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: About "Plowed Territory"
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| (...) It could have been two words for all you read. Do you have any idea why I cited it? (...) Mighty white of....forget it, plowed ground;-) (...) At the risk (hope;) of annoying you further, I'll recite the absolute pertinent part of the (...) (24 years ago, 2-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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