Subject:
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Re: The Problem of Evil
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 2 Dec 2000 19:06:35 GMT
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Reply-To:
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johnneal@SAYNOTOSPAMuswest.net
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Viewed:
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334 times
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richard marchetti wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > Flawed. God is good and gives us free will to choose evil. Respecting this
> > choice is a part of honoring our autonomy.
>
> Flawed. Prove free will rather than determinism. Prove to me that your
> actions are not determined by your nervous system, learned behavior,
> socialization skills, etc.
Tough proof I agree.
> Free will is an idea I tend to agree with because I find it aesthetically
> far more pleasing than determinism -- but then again, I couldn't prove the
> existence of free will beyond my own doubts about the idea.
I agree. It is better to presuppose that we are acting freely.
> But, let's say Free Will exists and this Christian god is testing us.
Stop right there. God isn't "testing" us. God created us and gave us life to do
with it what we will.
> What
> gives him the right to judge?
Well, other than the fact that God is perfect, and that God created us and
everything else-- nothing.
> I don't even let my own father tell me what's
> what.
You should show a little more respect:-)
> See if you can guess how much I care about the judgment of this
> mythical Christian god?
Would you care more, for instance, if God turned out to be not so much mythical?
> Moreover, Free Will presupposes choices. So basically, a Christian god
> needs his devil, doesn't he?
Nope. We can choose to be with God or not. Separation from God is Hell, not a
metaphorical really hot cave with a horned, pitchfork welding mangoat in charge.
> I guess that puts them pretty much on the same
> team. Ever read the Book of Job?
Yes.
> See what I mean?
No. The book of Job is a story, not a proof text that a devil exists.
> > Flawed. Explain how to quantify evil.
>
> No, you explain it. I don't believe in it. You are asking me to prove a
> negative. The ideas of good and evil are great for the sake of dramatic
> effect, but in the real world they don't amount to squat.
In your proof you stated that "evil is something". That implies that it is
quantifiable, or at the very least definable.
> > Maybe not for non sentient beings and things, but it is different for us. We
> > have free will. What about morality?
>
> Why is it different for us? Prove that animals are non-sentient. Prove
> that we are not just animals. And again, prove the existence of free will.
Now you are being lazy. You tell me.
> What about morality? Right! What about it? I don't believe in that
> either. I act only in my own self-interest -- precisely controlled by what
> I think I can get away with, and by the sorts of activities that otherwise
> prove advantageous in terms of my overall goals.
How would you like to live in a society with a bunch of Richard-types? I don't
think anyone would, including you.
> I swings me fists right up to the tips of my neighbors' noses.
Thanks for sharing.
> And I do not
> unto others as I would have others not do unto me...let's call it morality
> "lite," eh?
How about Syslectic Dolden Drool Gyndrome?
-John
>
>
> -- Richard (ape #5)
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: The Problem of Evil
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| (...) THE ENTIRE BIBLE is a collection of stories. It conflicts itself all over the place. I suppose you pull the standard dodges, and only pick what parts you agree with, and say they are true while the rest MUST be wrong? -- Tom Stangl ***(URL) (...) (24 years ago, 3-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: The Problem of Evil
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| (...) Flawed. Prove free will rather than determinism. Prove to me that your actions are not determined by your nervous system, learned behavior, socialization skills, etc. Free will is an idea I tend to agree with because I find it aesthetically (...) (24 years ago, 2-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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