Subject:
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Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds"
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:23:19 GMT
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Viewed:
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640 times
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To All,
OK, folks, since nobody got the ideas posting on this subject,
especially from me, let's see if I can clear this up:
1) If this LEGO test to determine different skills was one of the
factors to determine certain characteristics that the colleges want,
fine. However, based on the the two articles that were posted, these
weren't for all, they were only for minorities, because they weren't
qualified otherwise. This is a sidestep to recent rulings on affirmative
action, which has been in the courts and is unconstitutional,
discriminating against anyone, including white people, is wrong. This is
what Rush was saying, and I agree with that. If you want to talk about
affirmative action, that is another debate, and I won't be joining it,
for I think it is wrong.
2)I am not against teamwork, folks. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here at
AEI, or at other jobs in my career. I think testing for teamwork for
freshman admission is questionable, however. Later, in the degree
specific classes, I think it would be more appropriate.
3) Most college curriculums are a joke, and a waste of money. I spent
over 10,000 alone on classes I had in high school, even though I passed
a majority of the placement tests. I spent well over 5,000 alone on PC
classes. That's 15,000 on PC and classes I already had. A joke.
Also, the first two years are basically regurgitation of what you took
in high school. You don't use teamwork on most of these classes, and as
far as I can remember, you don't take teamwork tests. Sometimes, the
prof made us work in groups, and the people I got stuck with, I had to
do their work in order to get the good grade, and sometimes, I could
not, and I got a bad grade. I hate having my grade depend on slackers.
That is stupid as well, because my loans were riding on my grades.
College, especially for the first two years, in not realistic. If
colleges are shifting more classes to real world issues, etc, that is
fine. I am glad for it, and hope that regular K-12 schools do so as
well. My best classes in my degree were the upper level design courses.
We did work in groups and the like, and it was more realistic, but I
spent a lot of money and time on things that didn't matter.
Anyway, see #1 if you still have questions regarding this subject, which
I think was off on a tangent, and no one really addressed it, and went
into the usual Rush is a moron string, which I grow tired of. There are
plenty of examples of morons in the world as it is, and I don't think
Rush is one of them.
This post is a classic example of addressing one point, going to
another, and never going back to what it was originally about. Then
again, that's off topic for you.
Scott S.
John DiRienzo wrote:
>
> I am glad I read this whole thread before jumping in. I just want to say
> that I agree with Robert.
>
> --
> Have fun!
> John
> The Legos you've been dreaming of...
> http://www114.pair.com/ig88/lego
> my weird Lego site:
> http://www114.pair.com/ig88/
> Robert Brunskill wrote in message ...
> > > Going to college
> > > has NOTHING to do with "initiative, leadership and an ability to work
> > > in groups ". Working in the real world deals with these issues, and
> > > college is about as removed from reality as anything.
> >
> > This is changing. Businesses want people who know how to work together,
> > cooperate, and communicate. While a high grade student probably won't have
> > trouble getting a job, an average student from one school is more likely to
> > be passed over for a average student from a school known for producing
> > communicators and cooperators. The internet and telecommunications is
> > changing the way we work. Not only does that change require communication
> > skills, the jobs being performed are so complex that no one person can fill
> > a position. Work delegation and cooperation is more important than ever.
> > This is why our job market is so strong, companies need assistants.
> >
> > > Testing for this ability to build LEGO's with other students as
> > > admission to college is plain wrong, and is rather distressing. College
> > > admission should be a combination of school work, and drive, and not
> > > with building a LEGO robot. This is a pitiful attempt on getting around
> > > rulings of law, instead of addressing the problems of minorities and
> > > their test scores.
> >
> > The idea here is that traditional SAT's really only test raw knowledge. • They
> > test to see if you know the answer, or know enough to get the right answer.
> > The experimental testing is to try to test for traits and abilities that
> > cannot be found using multiple choice.
> >
> > > Rush points out the hypocracy of these admissions, and I am glad someone
> > > does.
> >
> > Before you just go agreeing with what Rush says, have a look at the • original
> > article. The Lego portion is only 5% to 9% of the test.
> >
> > "The Lego test [they have 10 minutes to build a robot] is one of a dozen
> > workshop activities over three hours... Other activities include public
> > speaking, conflict-resolution drills and personal interviews performed • under
> > the watchful eye of high school principals, teachers, counselors and • college
> > admissions deans who evaluate the college hopefuls."
> >
> > If that's not pressure to perform, I don't know what is.
> >
> > And on top of that...
> >
> > "After the battery of exercises, evaluators conduct half-hour interviews
> > with each student to identify qualities such as a willingness to seek help
> > if they're struggling academically. The interviews account for one-third of
> > their total score."
> >
> > So now the Lego test counts for potentially as little as 3 1/3%, at most
> > about 6% of their entrance exam.
> >
> > I think the most important thing that Rush and yourself are overlooking is
> > that it's still experimental. The test is being tested!
> >
> > "[Bial] will track the students throughout their college careers, comparing
> > retention, grades, graduation rates and contributions to their campus
> > communities with all other students at the schools, as well as with other
> > students with similar high school grades and standardized test scores.
> >
> > If the pilot program succeeds, Bial plans to open centers to conduct the
> > tests on any student who wants them in urban areas across the country."
> >
> > So your fears are addressed right here...
> >
> > "The tests could probably withstand legal challenges as long as whites as
> > well as minorities take them, said Terence Pell, a lawyer at the Center of
> > Individual Rights, a Washington-based non-profit law group that has sued
> > colleges over affirmative action."
> >
> > And how does this plan compare to...
> >
> > "Universities across the country are adopting different strategies to get
> > around tightening legal restrictions on affirmative action. Florida
> > announced in November that state universities won't consider race when
> > making college admissions but instead will take the top 20 percent of the
> > graduating class from every state high school to maintain diversity. In
> > Texas, the top 10 percent are eligible for admission."
> >
> > Now THAT'S skirting the issue!
> >
> > I think this quote sums it up pretty well...
> >
> > "The more selective a college is, the more it needs to be in tune to
> > measuring motivation, drive, perseverance and adaptability - the things • that
> > really translate into college success."
> >
> > As for the hoopla, someone else on Slashdot had a quote that sums that up
> > well...
> >
> > "Naturally, the "Lego test" gets the headline because it sounds • outrageous."
> >
> > And yes, surprise, surprise, Rush is just out to spout off about something
> > that sounds outrageous.
> >
> >
> > Rob
--
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Scott E. Sanburn-> ssanburn@cleanweb.net
Systems Administrator-Affiliated Engineers -> http://www.aeieng.com
LEGO Page -> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/3372/legoindex.html
Home Page -> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/3372/index.html
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Message has 4 Replies:
 | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds"
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| To all, I forgot, I disagree with Rush sometimes as well, with the LEGO quote, but he wasn't addressing the LEGo item, he was talking about the affirmative action issue. Now I don't need to tell a group the bias most people have against s AFOL's, he (...) (25 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds"
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| (...) Absolutely... although, in practice, when you are stuck with a poor team, it's really best to *NOT* do their work for them - at least my experience has shown this. Although it's possible that you could end up getting a lower grade for the (...) (25 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds"
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| (...) Umm... I think that was the point! That colleges are looking for people with leadership, teamwork skills, creativity, etc., and that traditional testing doesn't seem to show this ability in people, so they're looking in to new ways to test for (...) (25 years ago, 2-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds"
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| (...) When I was a sophomore in college I had to work with a group of five other people to write a 40ish page paper. We met over several weeks and it became more and more evident that this group simply didn't have the dynamic to make it happen. I (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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