Subject:
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Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds"
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:36:51 GMT
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Viewed:
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868 times
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"Scott E. Sanburn" wrote:
>
> Frank,
>
> Frank Filz wrote:
> > What's so wrong about colleges looking for people with "initiative,
> > leadership and an ability to work in groups?" You yourself said that
> > those are real world issues. Why shouldn't colleges be preparing people
> > for the real world?
>
> Yes, but I repeat myself many times: Since these people that are taking
> these test, mostly Hispanics and African Americans that would not
> normally get in due to the admission policies (I took this from the
> article, BTW), they use this test to boost them into the college. I
> think this is wrong. Everyone should be tested the same, regardless of
> race, class, etc.
Why is that? Should the tests be designed to determine who has a good
chance of succeeding at college? I think so. What if research
indicates that testing 'white' people with the ACT is valid and testing
'black' people with a teamwork LEGO-based spatial test is valid? What
if?
My M.Ed. is in education - primarily testing. What if I told you that
the best correlation of success in college is different for males and
females. It is! With the data that I had to analyze, the ACT (not the
SAT) was best for the ~10000 men that I looked at and high school GPA
was best for the ~10000 women. So, now that we know that one assessment
is more valid for men and another is more valid for women, is it _fair_
or _right_ to force the same test on both groups?
As others (Jeremy and/or Frank?) have mentioned, the point is to get the
right people into college. A college is much better off admitting
someone who's going to stay for four (or better yet, six) years. All
that should matter is that people who can make use of a college
education are getting the chance to do so. As long as that is being
done in a supportable and valid way, I don't care what the uneducated
masses think of the 'fairness' of it.
> I think this is what Rush is trying to say here. The
> college is sidestepping this issue, and it is wrong, whether they use
> LEGO elements or oranges.
Affirmative action is a poor model for increasing minority education.
This may not be. Frankly, it is in all of our best interest for the
level of education between cultural and SES groups to normalize. We
don't want unbreakable chains of poverty and ignorance. At least I
don't. Maybe since you seem to believe that they don't exist, you can't
get to the point where you don't want them to continue.
> Most colleges *don't* prepare most people for the real world. I have
> seen this many times, my classes with professors that have never had a
> real job in the profession they are teaching, etc. The closest I came to
> the real world was the technical courses I took. All the other classes
> were not.
It is unclear whether you are saying that this is a good or bad thing.
Maybe you're just saying that since you got screwed out of adequate
preparation, everyone else should be too. I'm really not sure.
Chris
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds"
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| Chris, (...) Because it sets up different standards, which segregate black and whites, and other groups. There is something about not discriminating because of race, sex, etc. Isn't there? Or should we? If we want a fair society, race and sex and (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds"
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| Frank, (...) Yes, but I repeat myself many times: Since these people that are taking these test, mostly Hispanics and African Americans that would not normally get in due to the admission policies (I took this from the article, BTW), they use this (...) (25 years ago, 1-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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