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(...) You need to establish that - over the course of this and other threads you have repeatedly refered to the 1776 date as if that was the extent of people throwing off their governemtn in this country, and I have on more than one occassion (and (...) (21 years ago, 18-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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(...) The point is that we don't live the same way today as we did in '76. And we don't live in the civil war era. And, again, both condtions were war-time scenarios, and, again, both times there were armies involved. THe civil war was the army of (...) (21 years ago, 19-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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(...) And if there was a revolt today against Dubya, why do you think it would not be a war time scenario, or that the opposition wouldn't form into an army? Or that the armed opposition wouldn't have come from home? And the point was that you kept (...) (21 years ago, 19-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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(...) Wasn't it a massive insurrection against a tyranny? Didn't the newly started country raise a rather large army to ward off the Brits? Wasn't it, then, really, an army against an army? Whether you Yanks partook in gurrilla warfare in the woods (...) (21 years ago, 19-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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(...) You know, I just don't think many people really think about the implications of 1775 (which is actually far more relevant to this debate than 1776, by 1776 the whole thing was well under way). How many people have thought about the (...) (21 years ago, 19-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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(...) True, but it didn't start that way. And if the farmers in 1775 had quietly rolled over and turned in their guns, the army of 1776 would not have been able to be raised. Here's a pretty good short account of the day: (URL) (21 years ago, 19-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Democratic? (was: Sticking my gun ...)
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(...) However the party system stuffs all that up by forcing members to vote "along party lines" instead of how their constituents want them to vote (except in conscience votes, which don't happen often in parliament). Note that I'm referring to (...) (21 years ago, 23-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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(...) This is not a small thing. See these newsbits: An open invitation to election fraud (URL) Not only is the country's leading touch-screen voting system so badly designed that votes can be easily changed, but its manufacturer is run by a (...) (21 years ago, 23-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote: <snip all good links that I'll spend time readig...> (...) You'd think that if the 'equalizer' is the 'final check and balancer of the system', then the system would have that mandated somewhere, (...) (21 years ago, 23-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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From Thomas Jefferson to William Smith Paris, November 13, 1787 Dear Sir, -- I am now to acknowledge the receipt of your favors of October the 4th, 8th, & 26th. In the last you apologise for your letters of introduction to Americans coming here. It (...) (21 years ago, 23-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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(...) <snip to the part which I believe, is the relavent part to this discussion> (...) <snip> TJ was a thoughtful and thorougly well versed man. For 1786. First, it's a letter, not a law, nor part of the constitution. If this 'preserving democracy (...) (21 years ago, 23-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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(...) Apples and oranges, Kooties. Xtian authorities have nothing to do with civil laws. My higher authority was variously a founder of my country, one of its primary legal authors, and an incredibly politically influential person besides. (...) (...) (21 years ago, 23-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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(...) Not according to your current president, or some ex-judge stating that your judicial system is based on the 10 commandments--these political people are appealing to God and the Bible. I'd say it's a difference b/w Macintosh and Golden (...) (21 years ago, 23-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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Asked and answered ad nauseum. You want justification? I don't need any more than the law of the land on my side as far as I am concerned. You claim the law doesn't say what I claim it does, but my actions and those of thousands like me and unlike (...) (21 years ago, 23-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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(...) Are you joking? "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." What the heck do you think it says? Well allow me to translate this into modern (...) (21 years ago, 24-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote: It's absolutely amazing how you keep missing the point. Let's just snip everything and go on a tirade that has nothing to do with the issue at hand, nor deal with any point that was raised. In the (...) (21 years ago, 24-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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(...) You need to do a cost benefit analysis here. Even one homicide or accidental death is undeniably tragic, but death, in the long run, is not preventable. Everyone dies of something some time. Weigh those 11,000 or 25.000 (tragic) yearly deaths (...) (21 years ago, 24-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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(...) " A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state..." The 2nd Amendment. militia = free state. Do you see it now? I could waste my time looking up references in state constitutions too, but why bother? I have this (...) (21 years ago, 24-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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(...) Nicely stated Larry. There was a discusion earlier differentiating between accidents and homicides--people dying in mining or oil platform accidents is tragic, but is not the same as willfully taking another life in an act of homicide. (...) (21 years ago, 26-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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(...) Nicely stated Larry. There was a discusion earlier differentiating between accidents and homicides--people dying in mining or oil platform accidents is tragic, but is not the same as willfully taking another life in an act of homicide. (...) (21 years ago, 26-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Blood of Patriots & Tyrants (was Re: Sticking my gun...etc.)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote: Curse you whomever is doing the DoS attack! double posted--sorry about that... Dave K (21 years ago, 26-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Voting Fraud (was Re: Sticking my etc.)
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More on this stuff today... Diebold takes down blackboxvoting.org (URL) This appears to be a public relations gaffe of staggering proportions on Diebold's part. It's not like bunging the terms "Diebold election fraud" into Google brings up only that (...) (21 years ago, 1-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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