Subject:
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Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:14:37 GMT
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Viewed:
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591 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
Massive ka-snip!
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Cites that don’t appeal to bygone history, please.
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Those that don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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And those that believe in dogma to the exclusion of rational thought are
brain washed.
Appealing to history to keep things the same as they were is not the same as
learning from history in order to make oneself better.
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You need to establish that - over the course of this and other threads you
have repeatedly refered to the 1776 date as if that was the extent of people
throwing off their governemtn in this country, and I have on more than one
occassion (and including just yesterday) asked you to please address the
American Civil War (from either side). I’m not saying that the Civil War
justifies anything in particular, just that you are incorrect in your
assumptions.
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The point is that we don’t live the same way today as we did in ‘76. And we
don’t live in the civil war era. And, again, both condtions were war-time
scenarios, and, again, both times there were armies involved. THe civil war was
the army of the north against the army of the south. The armies were made up of
people who lived at home. Members of your armed forces today do not live at
home, they live at West Point (or other places of billet).
How does the civil war and the war of independance justify your gun in your
house today? It doesn’t. Not even close. Society has grown up since then. We
learned and evolved and understand that in todays age a gun in a house in
America offers no protection from tyranny. We don’t hide behind obsolete ideals
that may have worked 200 years ago, and we certainly don’t condemn our fellow
citizens to brutal violent deaths just so we can be a gun toting yahoo.
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Saying you need guns
in your homes in the 21st century because your forefathers needed guns in
their homes the 18th century is ludicrous. But you mentioned that below.
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No, I didn’t say that. I left the door open to being able to say it,
however. :-)
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I interpreted it that way :)
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I have a one word rebuttal for myself if I was to say such: Dubya. This is a
guy who can convince himself of anything and actually believe it, a dangerous
capacity sor self-delusion.
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I, as you know, am the biggest Dubya fan in Canada. I really really feverently
hope that in 2004 he gets himself reappointed--I mean elected. I really really
hope that no one investigates that esteemed leader and set in motion the same
thing that got Nixon ousted!
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Is it truly ludicrous? Yes and no - I may make noises about Dubya, but I
really don’t believe he would go that far. But Ashcroft? But that wouldn’t,
couldn’t happen, you say? I think it unlikely, due to the traditions of
this country - he wouldn’t get the support, either from powerful civilians or
even (enough of) the military. But it is not inconceivable. Especially if
Ashcroft thought everyone indefensible. Yes, I think that little of that
crawling slime. The percentage chance? Dunno - probably somewhere down
around .00004 percent.
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Nice touch.
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Give arguements for having a gun in your house today. I’ve refuted every
one. The rhetoric that politicians do the will of ‘the people’ *only*
because they risk being shot is, again, ludicrous. Nixon wasn’t worried
about being shot when he stepped down. Every 4 years there are votes and
seats change--cogress people and senators leave due to the power of the
vote, not the power of a gun. Ask *any* of them why they left their seats
when they were voted out. As soon as the gun owner realizes all his or her
flawed reasons for keeping a gun in their homes are just that--flawed,
absurd reasons--then there will be a chance for a better, safer society.
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I don’t recall voting for Ashcroft, and yet he has power. And there’s the
dangerous thing, someone sneaking in the back door on someone else’s more
creditable coattails.
Realistically, though, what could I do with a mere rifle? Guerillas
everywhere have the same answer...
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And 25,000 folks a year won’t have to die just so the gun owners can have
their false security.
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Of course, balanced against some wahoo with an assault rifle, maybe Ashcroft
is the less creditable threat (I love arguing myself in circles!). :-)
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-->Bruce<--
(but then again, those that don’t adapt to changing conditions are destined
for extinction) :-)
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I think what I am trying to say is that the subject is less cut and dried
than you are trying to make it out to be.
-->Bruce<--
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But it’s not as idealistic as some others are saying--If you could prevent the
deaths of 11,000 of your fellow citizens per year, wouldn’t you try? What could
possibly stop you from that goal?
Dave K
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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| (...) And if there was a revolt today against Dubya, why do you think it would not be a war time scenario, or that the opposition wouldn't form into an army? Or that the armed opposition wouldn't have come from home? And the point was that you kept (...) (21 years ago, 19-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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| (...) You need to establish that - over the course of this and other threads you have repeatedly refered to the 1776 date as if that was the extent of people throwing off their governemtn in this country, and I have on more than one occassion (and (...) (21 years ago, 18-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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