 | | A hypothetical economics question...
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What would happen if all debts public and private were just plain cancelled as of, say, 1/1/2002? I choose an already-passed date so that there couldn't be a mad dash to accrue huge debt in hope that it would be eliminated. In all seroiusness, what (...) (23 years ago, 27-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) I think it would cause economic collapse. One question you would have to ask is what really do you mean by debt? If I buy stock in a company which is trying to raise capital, is that a debt or not? One serious problem is that you would (...) (23 years ago, 27-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) Dave! are you coming over to the "Fight Club" side of debate? This is exactly what happens at the end of the movie...my fav part. This is all part of an ancient custom, in the bible it is known as The Feast of Jubilee -- its celebration (...) (23 years ago, 27-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) Gee, Frank -- don't you think its weird that I, a pagan, have generally come out in support of a custom enumerated in the bible; whereas you, a Xtian, have come out against it? Curiouser, and curiouser... (...) Didn't you mean: Wealth in and (...) (23 years ago, 27-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) I believe he's referring to railroads and such. Roads are funded a bit differently, but may use loans. Phone lines, gas pipes, electric plants and transport lines... they are all usually funded with loans - it is unfrequent one or ones have (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Eh? These are usually public projects, how is it that there is not enough money collected from taxes to accomplish these things? Don't even get me started on how Californians have already paid for their power plants. Anyway, it's the interest (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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No way. I spent all my adult life avoiding debt (other than my mortgage - and the rate I pay on that is *less* than I get on my savings). I don't see why I should pay for others getting bank loans to play the stock market. (...) I'm sure I read (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) These *were* usually public projects. The present trend is to make everything dependant on private initiative, with State subsidies according to the strategic interest. At least it is happening in my country: the state wants to establish a (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) Please show me where I have EVER stated that I pay much heed at all to the Bible. I really would hardly consider myself a Christian either, true, I do consider Jesus to be a "great man" (possibly even supernaturally great, but definitely NOT (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) Careful about making such assertions, or you'll be labelled a classist! In any case, you're correct (by a long shot, I believe). Dave! (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It's a nifty visual, I agree. I'm still not sold on the film for a number of other reasons, but who wouldn't love the idea of someone swooping in to negate our debts for us? Ignoring for a moment the problem of destruction of private property (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) You are, of course, advocating communism: "Anyone who possesses even a single item beyond basic living requirements is equally culpable as one who possesses countless frivolous luxury items." And in fact I think there is a manifest difference (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) I thought you were always off to church and such...my mistake. (...) Why not? I am trying to suggest we give those under the thumb of the world be given a clean slate. Anything they do from this moment forward can bring them whatever wealth (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) Quite recently, I saw a graph of the net private debt/savings in the US. Since the second world war, the average debt of US households had increased from roughly 0% of the household income to around 100% today. This means that on average, US (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) Dave! Way to keep your eye on the moving targets! This was not a small topic you raised with your seemingly simple query. Of course, all of the things you describe are brought to us by the friendly passages contained in Title 12 of the Federal (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) <Snipped> (...) You are assuming housing costs would not fluctuate in the 6 years in study, right? I mean, by the time they reach 100k the house cost a tad more... and in the meanwhile, they may have been experiencing other possible (...) (23 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) Yes, I do go to church on a regular basis. Of course some of my fellow congregants very vehemently deny they go to church. I happen to find that church is a pretty good description of what I go to on Sunday even though the beliefs of my (...) (23 years ago, 1-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) I hate to be overly harsh -- but you have no idea what you are talking about. The corresponding amount of paper money to precious metals is by definition in U.S. federal law supposed to be .999 fine 1 oz. silver for a dollar (it is essentially (...) (23 years ago, 1-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) No harm done! I wrote "I think" and "I hope" for a reason! :-) (...) Ah, ok. My mistake then. In my place money is understood to have correspondance with central bank reserves (USD + Gold). Now it may have changed, with the new "Strong (...) (23 years ago, 1-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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I think you have been making some oblique references to the Euro. As far as I am able to discover, there was some talk about two years ago in regards to linking the Euro with gold in some ratio -- but I am unable to find anything recent that asserts (...) (23 years ago, 4-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Completely aside from the issue of how it's supposed to be, I've been wondering -- why the 20:1 ratio? It seems like a bad idea to have a ratio instead of just gold certificates and silver certificates and maybe a daily exchange rate. Do you (...) (23 years ago, 4-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) I'd quit my job. (...) Many wealthy people would lose their perpetual income streams. Many lower middle class people would lose their perpetual debt streams. I'd like to change your scenario a little. What would happen if the place where (...) (23 years ago, 4-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) Heh. I'd be pleased as pie if Zeus could come off his mountain and zap my student loans with a thunderbolt. Since I'm not yet a homeowner, that hefty monkey on my back makes up very nearly the entirety of my debt. Not that I'm shirking my (...) (23 years ago, 4-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) And I'd HAVE to go back to work. :-( (...) I pretty much agree, although there is a danger of stereotyping-- many people who are not rich but have been playing by the rules for several years would be hurt. And if you suddenly change the rules (...) (23 years ago, 4-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) You raise an interesting point -- I gather you think the true value is best determined through daily market forces. I am pretty sure the point of a ratio rather than certificates traded for daily value has to do with making the value static. (...) (23 years ago, 5-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) If the rules are currently patently unfair, is it not patently unfair to leave them as is? (...) That's silly. People will do whatever kind of work is needed as determined by the market. If housing is needed the market will provide it. I would (...) (23 years ago, 5-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) rate. (...) Unless there's a reason that I'm missing, that's kind of my default thought. (...) Got that, but in a global economy it's a phantom concept. I could always trade across the border. Maybe it made more sense way back when before (...) (23 years ago, 5-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question...
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(...) If they are, then yes, but if the losing side suddenly decides it doesn't like the rules and wants to change in mid-game, you can bet it won't sit well with the side that's ahead. And no one will take the new rules seriously if they are (...) (23 years ago, 5-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) leave (...) That's true to some extent. But isn't it changing the rules mid-game every time new laws are passed? Obviously we're discussing a much larger change than just adjusting our property tax rate up .25% to pay for school renovation or (...) (23 years ago, 5-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question... (long)
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(...) I think that there is a misconception about the role debt plays in the economy and what interest actually is. Here is some basic financial theory (A good way to get this is to have you company pay for you to get an MBA (U of Michigan) :-)) (...) (23 years ago, 5-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question... (long)
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(...) Unless he shared ownership with 99 other folks each of whom could come up with $1K. Joint ownership instead of borrowing, right? (...) Actually, that's just getting a loan. Finding partners who want their share value to increase seems more (...) (23 years ago, 6-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question... (long)
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(...) loans. If the individual defaulting has trouble with credit, what happens when the entire system (everybody) defaults. Think of the people that were reluctant to put money in the bank after the Great Depression and all the bank defaults. The (...) (23 years ago, 6-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A hypothetical economics question... (long)
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(...) Then lenders will be reluctant to loan. But that doesn't mean that they won't do it ever again under any circumstances. They'll just make the loan's terms more favorable to account for the risk. (...) I understand that this is what the FDIC (...) (23 years ago, 7-Mar-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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