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(...) I would revise that statement to say "The existence of US sanctions against Cuba prevents us from determining with certainty whether Cuban Communism would fail or succeed in the absence of those sanctions." Declaring that sanctions in (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Excellent point, Lindsay! Dan (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Larry, I'm not back-pedaling on any of my statements or trying to water them down. The sanctions have a PROFOUND effect on Cuba's economy. By imposing sanctions, America is not ALLOWING Communism to work in the country. Example: Imagine if Hawaii (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) If you can't define success, you can't define failure either. You asked me how I define failure, I answered. Remove "seems" if it bugs you that much and replace it with <null>. Doesn't change the definition at all. Communism has failed each (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Wait, Sun Yat-Sen wasn't a communist! :) (...) Oops! The Potato Famine is a case of imperial exploitation, not a failure of capitalism. It's also 1840s to about 1852, not 1857. :) (...) The question is what the basis for redistribution must (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Just a small quibble about that--if the Libertarian powers that be had wanted simply to establish a thought-model of a society in which Libertarian ideals had been fully realized it, and if they also meant no implication of "utopian" status (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) But to have a fair comparison, one must compare quality of work as well as employment. I'd bet that the median (not mean, median) worker in Cuba has a much better lot than the median worker in the United States, even if they don't make as much (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Hmm as do most other EU countries. Perhaps well regulated state funded education systems do have benefits? Infant mortality rate is also higher in the US than the EU - Perhaps well regulated state funded health systems also have benefits? EU (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The US is very slightly higher: (URL) the UK is higher still (99%) :-) Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Indeed. I understand that only ~8% of the Cuban GDP is agriculture based. (...) One could say the same about many political ideals. However, the fact is that some of the communist concepts do have a rather simple attractiveness to a lot of (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That's right. But it is partly due to the sanctions the US impose. If anyone is interested in the Cuban health care system, read here: (URL) A (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Addendum to my previous post: After comparing other sources on unemployment rates in America and Cuba, I see my figures are way off. America's unemployment rate is about 4.5%, NOT 8.6%, but Cuba's is still about 6%. I apologize for my error. Cuba (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I think the keyword here is "seem." Your previous statements were concrete (Communism has failed), now are you saying Communism "seems" to have failed? If that is the case, then I can also say Democracy and capitalism "seems" to have failed in (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) No. It doesn't claim to be a utopia and it doesn't claim to need ideal conditions in order to succeed and it doesn't depend on everyone being good, or being idealistic, or even having the same goals. Hope that helps. (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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in order to have a favorable opinion of (...) I'll add in here, that Libertopia is just as much of a separation from reality as a true communist nation. (hmm...and me in my Sun, Sea and Socalism t-shirt) :) I think that you need to see where the (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I don't know--but if you take Cuba in comparison with the US pseudo-colonies in the Caribbean that masquerade as independent states, I'd much rather be Cuban. Compare Cuba with the Dominican Republic, Haiti, or even a place like Jamaica, (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: (snipped) (...) Wrong! Medicine is very good in Cuba. They invest heavily in Healthcare. Honest! A friend of my father went there for heart surgery and spoke wonders of the place! (...) It was the (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'd go with the utilitarian argument that people don't seem to have much in the way of choices, material goods, freedom of expression, action, or movement, and some desperately want to leave to the extent of risking their lives to do so. Will (...) (23 years ago, 28-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) True. You'd be amazed by the amount of Portuguese people who have gone to Cuba for treatment, especially optic, cardiac, and neurosurgery (spelling?). (...) Dunno. But they do seem cult, public libraries have a lot of movement - then again, TV (...) (23 years ago, 27-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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I reposted here since this is the best thread for this topic: (...) Perhaps it would help if you'd expalin what constitutes "failure" in your opinion? Cuba has several strong points: * National health care * Higher literacy rate than America * Lower (...) (23 years ago, 27-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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