 | | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I understand the motivation too, I think (who can be *sure* they understand the motivation of others?). But I cannot condone force initiation. We must exhaust the rule of law first before we get that extreme. I share your concern about farming (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) How do you mean 'only' Frank? I mean, you could just type an email to your senator and figure that you've done your part. That would be an alternative action. But it wouldn't do anything. You could picket in front of the place. That would be (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I was trying to figure out how to say that, but I got hung up on how to actually do what you're suggesting Dan do. What about it? How would Dan, or I, substantiate claims of gross cruelty through negligence and intent? (...) Agreed. But do (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I think there's a real difference between burning down a supposedly empty building (the reports I've read weren't "empty" buildings, and destroyed not just the potentially abusive research, but also research which did not use animals) and (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I would assert that if you wish any success in encouraging people to change their views on the way animals are treated in this country that the onus is upon you to substantiate your claims. If the rest of us think that things are basically OK, (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I don't think he was questioning the reasonability of your statement. He wanted you to cite some of the sources that you've used to come to that conclusion. Actually, I was reading the group yesterday when larry posted and went off to search (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) For the love of heaven, must we start a new thread as to define what a fact is? How about diatribe? Were there not enough facts given at these sites? The answers to your questions are often not right in front of you. Seek well and learn well. (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Pork chops anyone?
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(...) of them have cites). But they're better than the front page. (...) They appear to be hung off the media link. Not where I'd think to go first were I looking for facts. So no, in my exploring of a very busy and poorly laid out front page, I did (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) You assume too much. I did that already, or something close to it. Didn't like the quality of sites I found, and thought I'd just (without any aspersions being cast, which is why I just asked outright instead of prefacing it with "I already (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) What if it was an endorsement? Judge the motive before the deed. Sometimes certain causes lend themselves to extremes, so long as the innocent are not endangered. The worst fight I had in my life was when this guy threw my dog in my pool. I (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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