Subject:
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Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.general
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Date:
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Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:07:40 GMT
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Viewed:
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2419 times
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Here are a few comments that stand out in my mind -- things that get to
the heart of the matter on a social level. I'd like to hear more opinions
on these points...
Robert M. Dye:
> [...] I really do enjoy the high percentage of USEFUL posts on
> LUGNET as compared to RTL. [...]
This seems to be a recurring theme lately, spoken in slightly different
ways by many different people...
While it's nice to hear on one level (the system was in fact designed to
have a high percentage of useful posts and to be organized), it hurts on on
another level each time someone expresses the sentiment. The news system
here wasn't designed to be compared to RTL, or to be thought of as more
sophisticated or better in any way, but rather to augment RTL, or, more
largely, to expand the online community of LEGO fans, which happens to
include RTL.
I'm concerned -- and Rob, I'm not pointing any fingers because I think in
retrospect that it's 100% natural to want to compare things, and I'm not
singling you out -- I'm concerned about the way it all boils down in
people's minds. This isn't to suggest that people are thinking wrong or
anything, but that the somewhat disturbing (to me, at least) result may
be indicative of a larger societal problem circling overhead.
Is it possible ever that, as beliefs build that lugnet groups are more
serious or on-topic than RTL, that there will become an increased
segregation over time?
Does there exist the possibility someday for a flame war on RTL over which
venue is "better"? (Certainly, opinions differ; do they differ enough to
begin driving a wedge?)
The highest and most important goal and mission of LUGNET is to aggregate
community rather than to segregate it.
So, the big question is, can the larger online community of LEGO fans
remain aggregated without RTL being hosted here, or must RTL be hosted
here in order to prevent further segregation?
It's not an access issue, but a social and perception issue. If RTL is
hosted here, do people begin to think of RTL as being a sub-community
under the (conceptually) larger LUGNET umbrella, or do people think of
the two as being separate and one of them possibly being elitist?
Larry Pieniazek:
> [...] I see it as harmful to the special thing that's growing here,
> and that seems to be dying out on RTL. RTL seems to be turning into
> a far less friendly place than it used to be and a far less useful
> place as well. [...]
What concerns me here (and again, I'm not pointing any fingers) is what
happens as more and more people cross the line between "the quality of RTL
is starting to decay and that is sad" and "RTL has decayed and is no
longer worth anything and is a bunch of riff-raff."
How far are we from that line now? How many people have crossed that line?
Is it good if half of the people are on one side of the line and the other
half on the other side? What happens if the observed "brain drain"
continues to the point where 80% of everyone has mentally crossed that
line?
Barry McFarland:
> [...] It seems as though RTL is becoming more and more hostile and
> just a billboard area for all of the ebay auctions. [...]
The fact that a change is visible after only 60 days is interesting.
As the scale further tilts (if it continues to do so), what types of
people will it repel and what types of people will it attract?
Dave Jost:
> [...] Could this R.T.L. on Lugnet Thing cause crosscontamination and
> these thing start happening to Lugnet?
It's interesting to hear the word "crosscontamination." The Furby-for-
sale postings are a contamination of RTL by drive-by-spammers from other
Usenet groups, I think, rather than than RTL'ers themselves, so it
shouldn't pose a crosscontamination threat to the lugnet.* groups if
RTL were hosted here... Plus, in order to post to a lugnet.* group,
people still have to acknowledge that they have read and understood the
rules of conduct, so if they posted a Furby-for-sale message in a lugnet
group, the consequences are potentially worse for them.
But back to the word "crosscontamination." Do people view the lugnet
newsgroups as being more clean or pure -- less contaminated? Is there
such a huge difference that labels like "contamination" come readily to
mind for most people? If yes, what is the impact of such labels on the
larger community of LEGO fans online?
> [...]
> Unless this togetherness is an improvement do not change a thing.
That's the big question: Is more togetherness a step forward or a step
backward? And is bringing RTL to the newsserver here actually more
togetherness or is it the same level of togetherness?
Simon Denscombe:
> I think it would be a good thing preventing the death of RTL as everyone
> leaves and moves to LUGNET.
Is that the general perception -- that everyone is slowly leaving? If it
is the general perception, then it may become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
> [...]
> It would prevent the split currently underway, the "I only have time for
> one of them" people who choose LUGNET.
It may also have the opposite effect -- if RTL is hosted here and it gives
those people and excuse to start checking out the groups here because they
can get it all from one source, they may discover that they enjoy the
lugnet.* groups more than rec.toys.lego, and totally stop reading RTL.
Is that a possibility as well? Might it in fact accelerate rather than
decelerate the "death" of RTL?
> [...]
> There would also be a community in RTL for newbies to join, if all th
> good people move here, then 'recruitment' would be almost zero, no-one
> would become involved and so the amount of LEGO InterNet people would
> decrease.
I'm interested in hearing more about this 'recruitment' -- can you give some
examples of how people have recruited others in the past.
--Todd
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Message has 6 Replies:
 | | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| (...) Here goes, but I'd like to hear some response from you on whether you agree with my technical comments (about article expiration and content based verification, specifically) or not. :-) Note that due to size I am putting footnotes on the same (...) (26 years ago, 29-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
| | | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| (...) Todd, I am new to the newgroup, but have been using RTL extensively for some time. The only way I found out about this set of newgroups was a post on RTL that mentioned them. Active recruitment in RTL would be essential to bring new members (...) (26 years ago, 29-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
| | | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| Todd Lehman wrote in message <366163a8.4473573@lu...et.com>... (...) <snipped most of the discussion.....> (...) I'm not sure about this. I really enjoyed RTL for some time, did some good trades, and shared a joke or two. I don't even look there (...) (26 years ago, 29-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
| | | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| (...) It's my perception anyway, I have heard many people saying that they no longer post to RTL. (...) Well not if RTL was used instead of lugnet.general (but as has been said they have different purposes), then LUGNET people would still post to (...) (26 years ago, 29-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
| | | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| Todd Lehman wrote in message <366163a8.4473573@lu...et.com>... (...) Yes. But I wouldn't call the serious nature of the posts over here "belief." I'd call it fact. How many flame wars have we had here in Lugnet? None. How many off-topic.debate (...) (26 years ago, 30-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
| | | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| I couldn't find the bit in here that might be relevant, so snipped it all! I would imagine that, due to the lack of flame-wars, the more productive and useful postings, the Organization of LUGnet, makes it a much more viable vehicle with which to (...) (26 years ago, 30-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Should RTL be hosted on this server?
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| Well, I'll risk putting in my two cents, and being thought a fool... I have trouble accessing RTL from time to time. Most recently, I keep getting that there are no new mesages, when I know for a fact that ther are. I had thisa problem once befoore, (...) (26 years ago, 21-Nov-98, to lugnet.general)
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