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This is true
I still can't find 2 missing Slizer disks, the dam things. I will not swear
:-)
Why can't lego sell the Bio Masks on their owe in bags that we can see
though? Simple eh?
--
Michael
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Please reply on
medwards@ukonline.co.uk
Lugnet Member# 151
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Lego Magazines from the Past and Present
www.lugmag.com or www.lugmag.co.uk
Home of the UK Lego Technic Club Magazine
www.technic-uk.co.uk
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"Ray Kremer" <rkremer@bradley.edu> wrote in message
news:G8K0w7.A76@lugnet.com...
> This reminds me of how hard it is to get the 7-dot Throwbot [Slizer] • discs.
> If this were Pokémon cards, rare items would be understandible, but these
> "collectible" items are merely there to support sets which are available • in
> plenty. I really wish Lego wouldn't jerk us around like this.
>
> Ray Kremer
> http://throwbots.virtualave.net/
>
> In lugnet.technic.bionicle, Christian Gemünden writes:
>
> > In Europe the randomly assorted mask bags (#8530) came out in february. I
> > picked up many of these bags already. To be excactly I do have more than • 70
> > of these bags, which means I spent about US$150 for these masks so far • for a
> > collection of about 150 masks.
> >
> > It is more than obvious that these bags are *not at all* randomly • assorted!
> >
> > I think it's really a disgrace to LEGO to start such a lousy marketing
> > strategy. Even the kids will soon find out that they were leg-pulled and
> > LEGO never produced all the masks they show on the bags. Of course - once
> > the kids find out that they were cheated, then it'll be too late for them • as
> > they've already spent all their money on the Bionicle stuff. However, a • very
> > bad taste of disappointment about the LEGO brand will stay in their • minds! I
> > don't think they'll buy LEGO any time soon again. What a stupid dirty • trick
> > LEGO is playing on them!
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In lugnet.dear-lego, Michael Edwards writes:
> Why can't lego sell the Bio Masks on their owe in bags that we can see
> though? Simple eh?
Heck! Just open those bags up and select the colors you want.
That's what I do when I buy underwear -- have you seen the colors and weird
designs that certain manufacturers expect one to wear under one's
jeans/dungarees? Uh uh. Give me black, Baby!
heh, heh, heh...
-- Richard (Mr. Too Much Information)
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And wait for the Gaud to tap on your shoulder :-)
Looks like a few trips to the Local Cop's
--
Michael
- - -
Please reply on
medwards@ukonline.co.uk
Lugnet Member# 151
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Lego Magazines from the Past and Present
www.lugmag.com or www.lugmag.co.uk
Home of the UK Lego Technic Club Magazine
www.technic-uk.co.uk
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"richard marchetti" <blueofnoon@aol.com> wrote in message
news:G8K5DH.LoB@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.dear-lego, Michael Edwards writes:
> > Why can't lego sell the Bio Masks on their owe in bags that we can see
> > though? Simple eh?
>
> Heck! Just open those bags up and select the colors you want.
>
> That's what I do when I buy underwear -- have you seen the colors and • weird
> designs that certain manufacturers expect one to wear under one's
> jeans/dungarees? Uh uh. Give me black, Baby!
>
> heh, heh, heh...
>
> -- Richard (Mr. Too Much Information)
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In lugnet.dear-lego, Richard Marchetti writes:
> In lugnet.dear-lego, Michael Edwards writes:
> > Why can't lego sell the Bio Masks on their own in bags that we can see
> > through? Simple eh?
>
> Heck! Just open those bags up and select the colors you want.
>
> That's what I do when I buy underwear -- have you seen the colors and weird
> designs that certain manufacturers expect one to wear under one's
> jeans/dungarees? Uh uh. Give me black, Baby!
>
> heh, heh, heh...
>
> -- Richard (Mr. Too Much Information)
Yep, I would say so. I guess we should all be glad you did not specify
boxers or jockey shorts! ;-)
Maggie C.
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Michael Edwards wrote in message ...
> This is true
>
> I still can't find 2 missing Slizer disks, the dam things. I will not swear
> :-)
>
> Why can't lego sell the Bio Masks on their owe in bags that we can see
> though? Simple eh?
Can you say Pokemon. I refuse to allow any pokemon stuff into our house due
to the blatant marketing of a .05 card.
I just educate my son on not "collecting" stuff that is just a marketing
ploy to get you to buy a bunch of sets for some non-existent set. This is
nothing new in the world of marketing toys.
Rose
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In lugnet.dear-lego, Rose Regner writes:
> I just educate my son on not "collecting" stuff that is just a marketing
> ploy to get you to buy a bunch of sets for some non-existent set. This is
> nothing new in the world of marketing toys.
I used to collect Magic cards (and play the game).
I can assure you that you *can* collect a full set of these cards. It just
requires patience, and a lot of money and/or hard trading.
There's nothing uneducated about it. If you enjoy it, you enjoy it. If you
don't, you don't.
eric
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> I can assure you that you *can* collect a full set of these cards. It just
> requires patience, and a lot of money and/or hard trading.
Eric,
I also love collecting all these things. I enjoyed when I saw LEGO coming
out with disks, then wheels and now masks. I spent a *lot* of money on the
disks, then I had them complete one day. A little later, even more special
disks came out in new colours (along with new Slizers) and sonn after that,
I picked up my first pack of wheels. Then I became crazy of the wheels and
so I tried to get all of these too: I failed! It's *impossible* to have all
of these wheels as LEGO never produced all. Believe me, they didn't! Let me
explain: There are 128 'usual' wheels and I'm nearly complete on these (I'm
sure the ones I am missing are available, I just didn't get them yet).
However, TLC also decided to release a limited number of golden wheels
exclusively for Germany and within Germany exclusive to ToysRus and within
ToysRus exclusively available when purchasing TWO RoboRider Sets (per
wheel!). That makes you ending up with 32 (!!!) Roborider Sets although
there are only six different ones! *But* it's even more confusing: The
golden wheels made available at each ToysRus store were not even randomly
assorted! That's why each unique shop only had a short number of different
wheels in stock (~4 different ones). You think that's it? Read on...
BTW, these sets are:
http://guide.lugnet.com/set/?q=xxxx1x&v=a
I contacted TLC about the golden wheels and they told me that they *never*
produced all 16 wheel shapes in golden, instead only 10 of these ran into
the production!!! However, they were *not able* to send me all these 10
different wheels. SO, in fact, although I am willing to spend US$20 (or
heck, I don't know how much!) and I also tried trading hard, I still don't
have all the 10 golden wheels that (according to LEGO consumer service) were
ever produced. That's not simply strange, that's ridiculous!
Anyway, I was able to get all the disks and nearly all the wheels, but for
the masks it's too crazy! It's obvious that TLC has only produced 48
different masks and has not shipped all the other combinations! That's
extremely annoying as you'll *never* be complete and I hate that feeling. It
feels like having been really really leg-pulled!!!
And what makes me even more upset is that fact that NOONE at TLC is willing
to answer the questions I do have regarding the masks! I tried contacting
the consumer service via Phone and Email but didn't get any answers either
way and I don'T think anyone reading the .lego.direct newsgroup will reply
to that subject - *although* TLC makes such a huge "tohuwabohu" about the
Bionicles, the Bionicle music, software, upcoming sets etc... . Can it
really be that besides all that marketing blowing nobody is able to simply
explain me what has been packed inside the masks #8530 ? If I knew that the
so far unseen masks have certainly been produced but only at around 1:100
[fictitious number] accoring to the others I would keep spending money as
I'd be willing to pay more for the extremely rare masks. However, obviously,
not one single person on earth is knowing what's going on with these masks.
And to make it even more confusing, TLC has announced at various places that
there will be even more new shapes and colours and special masks later in
2001 but yet there is no complete list or anything that showes you what's
the goal!
Looking at the pokémon collection stuff, you know that there are ~150 (a lot
more by now) monsters to collect and so you can find out what's missing.
However, TLC is not able to give you detailed answers about these masks and
I don't think any person within the Company has a plan how many masks will
actually make it to the production. That's shameful!
> There's nothing uneducated about it. If you enjoy it, you enjoy it. If you
> don't, you don't.
Again, I enjoy collecting and I know that it means spending lots of money
and trading hard. I enjoy that too (I kinda enjoy wasting money for double
masks meanwhile), but as LEGO has decided to enter this collecting area,
they should also adopt some of the rules that are custom for these trading
things:
- correctly announcing what's going to be released and when.
- giving the consumer at least a chance (maybe a tiny if they want to) to
get all the stuff that is shown on the package.
- having someone at their consumer hotline being informed about these products!
@ TLC: Once again, I ask you to *compare* what you are showing on your website:
http://www.lego.com/eng/bionicle/kanohi.asp
what you do show on the bag of each mask bag:
http://www.brickmaster.de/images/bio_masks2_temp.jpg
and what I was able to pick up with 70+ bags of masks:
http://www.brickmaster.de/images/bio_masks_list.jpg
I am really badly dissapointed about that! What's that for a marketing
strategy that shows you plenty of things and later it turns out that these
things were not even produced and you've been ripped off and spent all your
money for that non-existing stuff!
I remember in 1999 when I recieved my first batch of disks and was a little
sad to find out that they were not randomly assorted at all (as mentioned
before, the 7pip ones are extremely rare). However, spending more and more
money on these disks allowed you to get all the rare stuff as well, you had
to be a little lucky though. Looking at the mask statistic for so far, I
seriously doubt that anyone will ever be able to own all the masks there
are, no matter how much money you are willing to spend on them.
And last but not least [shit!] - let's release that info too:
I have been to the Toy Fair and although there was a large slab showing the
'complete' [accoring to the promoters] list of all masks, they had to leave
a few blanks on that slab too were masks were missing! Of course none of the
'real' retailers has noticed the missing masks, but me [as a fan] noticed
the blanks and wrong colour replacements! And even more interesting was the
reaction of the promoter when I confroted him with rumors of upcoming golden
masks: He started to stutter and showed me the trans-yellow Kanohi-Kaukau
(the only trans yellow mask btw) and said: "ah - it must be that one here,
of course we only have prototypes of the masks so far as they are not yet
released". Funny though, the fair was in february and I picked up my first
mask bag a few days before tha fair started. So, how can they sell a product
of which only prototypes were produced so far? Anyway, I simply said: "Oh, I
thought there would be six golden masks, one for each TOA. Why has TLC
decided to release only that one as golden version?" - "Oh, I don't think
the kids will ever notice that detail!"
I better stop this posting here now. The more I write, the more I feel rotten!
If you want to, you may keep checking my regular updated *.jpg formatted
trade lists:
http://www.brickmaster.de/images/bio_disks_list.jpg
http://www.brickmaster.de/images/bio_wheels_list.jpg
http://www.brickmaster.de/images/bio_masks_list.jpg
... maybe one day I will be able to add a tan mask or maybe even a golden
one (just dreaming...)
Bye (for now), Christian --- xTIAN.
--------------------------------------------------
Lugnet Member #479 -- The World is full of AFOLs !
mail: xtian@brickmaster.de web: www.brickmaster.de
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In lugnet.dear-lego, Christian Gemünden writes:
> It's *impossible* to have all
> of these wheels as LEGO never produced all. Believe me, they didn't!
Oh, whoa, hang on a sec. I'm not disputing your claim that all the wheels
weren't produced- I wouldn't know, I didn't try to collect them. It's entirely
possible.
On the other hand, when someone complains that they got many of the more common
items when trying to get all the rare ones, or flat out says that collecting
anything is some kind of scam to get educated against, it makes me a bit testy.
I understand your frustration, and don't doubt what you say- I have no reason
to think one way or the other. It's the more blanket issues people are
bringing up with collecting in general that I have an issue with.
eric
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> Oh, whoa, hang on a sec. I'm not disputing your claim that all the wheels
> weren't produced- I wouldn't know, I didn't try to collect them. It's entirely
> possible.
Sorry Eric, I didn't plan to address my complains to you. Of course I
noticed that you are not disputing my claim; I only wanted to add to your
posting that there is a VERY large difference between:
1) producing really randomly assorted collectibles and releasing all.
2) producing collectibles but releasing them in limited quantities (but all).
3) showing images of collectibles but *not* releasing all of them (not even
in limited quantities).
As for the first two, I think they are both okay (so, I astually agree with
you). But I think it's not okay to push something that famous through using
strategy number 3) !
Again, sorry for addressing my posting to you. When I started to reply I
didn't think of all the things I would add later. However while writing
there suddenly came to my mind that I have spent another US$20 today on
masks and not one new combination has been among. Not that I would have
expected that, but I bought the bags anyway as they simply looked so cool
(and I won't even imagine what the sad kids will look like that will have to
open these horrible bags and so I had to pick them up instead *g* ! )
Let's simply hope LD might some day drop us a few reasonable lines to
explain that chaos. Otherwise I won't change my mind and keep buying the
basg anyway (although they suck).
My theory: The larger this discsussion gets, the more probable TLC is going
to act about it. However, I prefer a discussion deeply in thought with full
of new strong arguments!
Bye (for now), Christian --- xTIAN.
--------------------------------------------------
Lugnet Member #479 -- The World is full of AFOLs !
mail: xtian@brickmaster.de web: www.brickmaster.de
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In lugnet.dear-lego, Eric Joslin writes:
> In lugnet.dear-lego, Rose Regner writes:
>
> > I just educate my son on not "collecting" stuff that is just a marketing
> > ploy to get you to buy a bunch of sets for some non-existent set. This is
> > nothing new in the world of marketing toys.
>
> I used to collect Magic cards (and play the game).
>
> I can assure you that you *can* collect a full set of these cards. It just
> requires patience, and a lot of money and/or hard trading.
I believe it's true for Magic.
I would not be too surprised if it wasn't true for Pokemon, though. But I
suspect it's against the law in at least the US, as it would be false
advertising to claim something is available if it is not ever available
anywhere (even in small quantities).
I'd rather TLC didn't go down this particular path, legal or not.
++Lar
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"Lorbaat" <eric@nospam.thirteen.net> wrote:
> In lugnet.dear-lego, Rose Regner writes:
>
> > I just educate my son on not "collecting" stuff that is just a marketing
> > ploy to get you to buy a bunch of sets for some non-existent set. This is
> > nothing new in the world of marketing toys.
>
> I used to collect Magic cards (and play the game).
>
> I can assure you that you *can* collect a full set of these cards. It just
> requires patience, and a lot of money and/or hard trading.
>
> There's nothing uneducated about it. If you enjoy it, you enjoy it. If you
> don't, you don't.
...Related to Magic though was the big disaster they had with Antiquities (at
least I think it was Antiquities), where the distribution of cards was not
random. Apparently someone at the card plant screwed up and the sorting didn't
work out the way it was supposed to.
...This kind of sorting/randomizing is a big part of any "collectible" product
like the Bionicle masks... so perhaps we are just seeing an example of it
(specially since LEGO does not have much history in the random/collectible
aspect of distribution)...
...The other thought is that they may be solving the "random" aspect of it by
rolling out parts of the line at different times (which IIRC Decipher did with
one of their CCG lines... its a bad way to "randomize" the selection, but it
does work). So maybe we just haven't seen the distribution of the other colours
yet?
---
wubwub
wubwub@wildlink.com
www.sitcatsit.com <-- a guy and his cat
www.wildlink.com <-- the wildlinks
< INSERT HUMOROUS TAGLINE HERE >
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In lugnet.dear-lego, Larry Pieniazek writes:
>
> I would not be too surprised if it wasn't true for Pokemon, though. But I
> suspect it's against the law in at least the US, as it would be false
> advertising to claim something is available if it is not ever available
> anywhere (even in small quantities).
>
> I'd rather TLC didn't go down this particular path, legal or not.
Bah, believe me, *every* booster has a rare, and one in three is a holo.
With a lot of time, money, and diligence I was able to complete three sets
of Pokemon cards.
For this reason I know how it is to open 5 boosters in a row to get
practically nothing interesting or good. Thus I find TLCs actions totally
unacceptable.
Okay, I *really* like collecting. A LOT. Look at my lego collection! In
fact, every thing I acquire, be it lego, cards, a video game, or a happy
meal toy, I have to keep as pristine as possible, especially the box. Often
I will not even remove the shrinkwrap, but only cut a flap on the side in
order to open it. Now THAT is sick!
Lego is hella cool to collect, and I like the idea of true collectable lego,
say, the masks/discs. I never got into throwbots much-thank god! I think
Bionocle and these masks would have interested me though, however...after
hearing all this I refuse to buy them. Lego has always been about quality,
and may the set be an idol like the Century Skyway and Skull's Eye Schooner
or some crap like the Roadside Repair and Super Cycle Center, there was
always something that just screamed quality from the whole package, and IMO
TLC always had its dignity. Not any more. Their new technique with the
masks makes them pompus and sick, and I will NOT tolerate it. If this is
the type of thing TLC will be doing, then Lego Direct can <TOS> off, even
they can't help. This not only discourages me from trying to collect any
masks, but pick up any Lego product at all. It changes my view from what I
thought to be a reputable company to something much lessar than Mega
Blocks...at least Ritvik was a strait-out, FAIR competitor. Lego has REALLY
crossed the line this time, and if I don't get an answer soon I may begin a
lego boycott (believe me, I have enough to last me for a while already). If
I learned that certain rares never existed in the Pokemon TCG after I had
just spent $80 collecting hoping to find them...oh, you don't KNOW the stink
I'd make out of it. If this is how TLC chooses to treat its customers, the
only thing that pulls me back in could be the next wave of SW lego.
--Josh
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>
> ...Related to Magic though was the big disaster they had with Antiquities (at
> least I think it was Antiquities), where the distribution of cards was not
> random. Apparently someone at the card plant screwed up and the sorting didn't
> work out the way it was supposed to.
>
> ...This kind of sorting/randomizing is a big part of any "collectible" product
> like the Bionicle masks... so perhaps we are just seeing an example of it
> (specially since LEGO does not have much history in the random/collectible
> aspect of distribution)...
>
> ...The other thought is that they may be solving the "random" aspect of it by
> rolling out parts of the line at different times (which IIRC Decipher did with
> one of their CCG lines... its a bad way to "randomize" the selection, but it
> does work). So maybe we just haven't seen the distribution of the other colours
> yet?
> ---
> wubwub
> wubwub@wildlink.com
> www.sitcatsit.com <-- a guy and his cat
> www.wildlink.com <-- the wildlinks
>
> < INSERT HUMOROUS TAGLINE HERE >
Actually the handling of Magic in the early days carries a few messages that
I think Lego might do well to study carefully.
The problem with Antiquities was an over-abundance of common cards and poor
planning of how they would be inserted into packs. The result was that
people would open up packs and get 2 of the same common card in a pack of 8
cards (6 commons). In response to this, Wizards of the Coast offered to buy
back common Antiquities at (I think) fifteen cents each.
The other big problem they had was with the very next expansion, Legends.
The sheets of uncommon cards were split in half, and entire cases (not just
boxes or packs) were packed containing only half the uncommons. The result
was that a store (or collector) could buy a case or more of Legends and
never see half the uncommon cards. To fix it, Wizards allowed people to send
in a batch of uncommons for one side and request cards from the other side.
The other interesting thing is how the control of information evolved over
time. In the early days of Magic, the sets were simply released. No
information was given about rarity or even what cards were in the set. The
only source of this was individuals or groups who compiled it themselves.
Soon, Wizards starting releasing official card lists, eventually doing it
even before the cards hit stores. Later, they started putting small numbers
on the cards (e.g., 33/145). They also started putting a color code on the
card to tell you if it was common, uncommon or rare.
So what might Lego learn from this?
1. Publish a complete lists of the masks, indicating rarity. Anybody who
cares should know exactly what they have a chance of getting in a pack. From
some of the comments on this list, doing this could have prevented a world
of bad feelings among your customers.
2. If indeed the mix is as bad as some people say, consider a trade-in
program or some other action to correct it.
3. If it's feasible, find a way to indicate set completion (like the card
numbers) and rarity on the mask. This benefits kids who might otherwise get
ripped off trading a rare mask for a common one they just hadn't seen yet.
This happened a lot in the early days of Magic and gave it a bad reputation
for some people.
Kurt
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