 | | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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"TWS Garrison" <tgarriso@math.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:GAKFqz.58w@lugnet.com... (...) position (...) caves (...) Inklings. (...) Ouroboros_ by (...) fantasy--notice (...) spelling (...) of (...) post-nuclear-apocalyptic (...) As opposed to (...) (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) I'd say the genre predates Tolkien and co. (see, e.g., _The Worm Ouroboros_ by E.R. Eddison). Tolkien is the archetype for much later s&s fantasy--notice blatent use of orcs (you can barely argue a medieval precedent), his spelling of dwarfs, (...) (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) What about Thundarrrrrr the Barbarian and his Fabulous Sun Sword? Dave! (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) I wasn't saying that JR invented the genre, rather that he defined it for the vast majority of authors. Middle Earth *is* the template and yardstick for pretty much everything. I don't know the origin of 'orc' - tell me! - but I wouldn't have (...) (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) Lord Dunsany would be another, Fritz Leiber, Robert E. Howard, though none in quite the same style. (...) Lin Carter (terrible author, but great editor whom revived such authors as Eddison and Dunsany) very specifically reviled The Sword of (...) (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) Middle-earth, hyphenated, small e. Tolkien had a number of idiosynchratic spellings, such as dwarves. Orc is derived from Ogre, which is why you see fantasy games can get away with refering to orcs, but never Hobbits. Bruce (who got away with (...) (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) I thought the word "orc" is derived from the workers around an orc-pile, i.e. a pile of dead bodies, as referred to in Beowulf. Cheers, - jsproat (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) I couldn't finish it either. I threw it against the wall. It had such a marketing hype from Ballantine along with the Hildebrandt illustrations, I felt betrayed that either would have anything to do with it. (...) I am a leper. I feel sorry (...) (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) I think that I've agreed with you about Prydain here in the past, but I just can't let an opportunity pass unanswered. Alexander's Prydain books are just about the best fantasy fiction that I've ever read. I read it all as a kid and I happen (...) (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) That would seem logical, especially since Tolkien was a Beowulf scholar, but the attributions I have read specifically say it derives from ogre (or was it ogre actually derives from orc - dang, I don't remember). Bruce (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) One thing in Donaldson's favor is that he isn't afraid to make his protagonists wholly unlikeable characters, as opposed to nice guys who do things as nice guys and end up as nice guys when the story is over. It's the age-old redemption-story, (...) (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) Oh alright. I agree: written for "young people" or not, the Prydain books are amongst the elite of fantasy fiction. Certainly the best written, for me. I read them as an adult, simultaneously with Eddison's first series. I broke with a long (...) (23 years ago, 21-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) FWIW, the American Heritage Dictionary says the root for ogre is from the Latin orcus, god of the underworld...huh. Now I gotta dig up the resource where I got my idea, I vaguely remember this being mentioned. Cheers, - jsproat (23 years ago, 22-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) I enjoyed Feist, even knowing it was derived from an RPG supplement. I enjoyed Daughter of the Empire and it's sequels more though. I wonder how many people who read Feist's books ever saw the RPG supplements though? Frank (23 years ago, 22-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) "Sword of Sha na na?" BWAAAAAA! :) Lord Bowser, your mighty steed awaits! (...) I'll put on the "historian cap" here: most Mediaevalists hate it, but Norman Cantor's polemic _Inventing the Middle Ages_ has a rather ...interesting... chapter on (...) (23 years ago, 22-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) Yup, that seems to ring a bell. Anyway, the word "Orc" couldn't really be protected under trademark laws (at least in this country). Bruce (23 years ago, 22-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Plagarism in Fantasy Novels? (was Re: Harry Potter?)
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(...) Tolkien pretty much did his thing for self-satisfaction rather than packaging something to be "sold" to a popular audience. In any case, Tolkien was interested more in mythology than actual history. I saw Inventing the Middle Ages on a (...) (23 years ago, 22-Mar-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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